September 15, 2009, Matthew Cochrane, In Defense of My Church and Pastor: Congregational Meeting Announcement
Once again, I feel the need to digress from the normal nature of this site to address the concerns of my local church. This past March, Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church (CRPC), one of the largest Presbyterian churches in the country and the church where my family and I worship, resoundingly elected Tullian Tchividjian to serve as its new Senior Minister. Out of 1,014 voting members present, 920 voted in favor of calling Tchividjian to this position. Under this agreement New City Presbyterian, the church where Tullian had been ministering, would merge with CRPC. It is important to note that the Session of Elders at CRPC unanimously approved both the merger and the selection of Tchividjian as the new Senior Minister. With 91% of the congregation voting in favor of the merger and the calling of Tchividjian, the whole church was excited to embark on this new chapter together with our new pastor and members from New City.
In late July, however, a small but vocal minority of “concerned members” placed fliers on the cars in the church parking lot during the Sunday evening worship service. The fliers contained a slew of allegations about Tchividjian and the way he had performed his job since taking over. The following week members received letters in the mail containing the same allegations. The letters and fliers contained petitions asking members to call for a congregational meeting for the specific purpose of dismissing Tullian Tchividjian from his position. According to the PCA Book of Church Order, once a church the size of CRPC collects a petition with 100 signatures or more, a congregational meeting must be held within 30 days.
This past week the petition was submitted to the denomination and the meeting has been called for this Sunday, September 20th. Following the morning worship services, a congregational meeting will convene for one purpose: to determine whether to retain or remove Pastor Tullian Tchividjian from his position as senior minister. The Session of Elders wrote a letter to the members of the church to explain and announce the meeting. The letter states (bold emphasis mine, italic emphasis original):
Dear Coral Ridge Family,
This letter is to notify you that, in response to petitions recently received from some members of this church, the elders have scheduled a congregational meeting following the first morning worship service on Sunday September 20, 2009.
On that day, there will be no Sunday School classes or second service. The elders regret any inconvenience caused by this change in schedule, but believe this is the best of all available options in order to convene the meeting at 11 AM so that it can conclude at a reasonable hour.
The petitioners have requested the meeting for one purpose: to remove Tullian Tchividjian as our Senior Pastor. According to our Book of Church Order (BCO), any discussion and subsequent vote must be limited to this one issue. This will be a formally called congregational meeting—not an informational town hall meeting like the three town hall meetings we’ve had since Pastor Tullian's installation. In other words, the petitioners have not asked for this meeting so that we can “talk things over.” They have asked for the meeting in order to dissolve the relationship between our pastor and Coral Ridge—nothing more and nothing less. And this will be determined by a vote at the conclusion of the meeting.
The Session calls this meeting reluctantly and with deep regret because, according to the Book of Church Order and the Bible, the basis for removing a pastor should be limited to heresy, immorality, or illegal activity. Our pastor is not guilty of any of these things. And yet, in the absence of any such charges—and less than six months after more than 90% of the voting members approved Pastor Tullian’s call and the merger of Coral Ridge with New City Church—these petitions have been presented.
So, since the elders unequivocally and enthusiastically support Pastor Tullian, why call the meeting? The Book of Church Order states that if 100 members in a church of 700 or more (we have just over 2500 members) sign a petition and submit it to the elders, the elders shall call a congregational meeting for the purpose of conducting the business requested by the petitioners. So, although the Session disagrees with the position and the request of the petitioners, it is necessary for us to schedule a congregational meeting to act on their request.
The elders strongly recommend that all members in good standing vote to keep Tullian Tchividjian as the Senior Minister of this church. We remind you of his willingness to accept our call only after repeated urging and much prayer.
God has blessed Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church since Pastor Tullian’s arrival. Attendance at worship services have doubled compared to this time last year. We have added over 300 new members since he was installed and just fewer than 150 people have signed up for the new member’s class—the largest new members class in the history of Coral Ridge! Our giving is up compared to what it has historically been this time a year (as was demonstrated at the last town hall meeting). People are getting saved, people are growing. We have received hundreds of notes from people who are new and feeling spiritually revived by what God is doing here. For these and many other reasons we rejoice in the fact the God has called Pastor Tullian here and fully expect that his ministry at Coral Ridge will be very long and very fruitful.
The gravity of this situation has made it necessary for the Session to contact the Presbytery and the Stated Clerk of our denomination—the Presbyterian Church in America—with regard to procedures for this meeting. In order to insure that the meeting is efficient, fair, and objective, the Session has inquired from our denominational headquarters how to secure an outside moderator to come and moderate the meeting.
As is the case with congregational meetings like this, it will be necessary to restrict attendance to those who are currently entitled to vote. The Stated Clerk of the PCA has informed us of the following regarding who may vote:
·Only communicant members in good standing who are physically present at the meeting may vote
·Associate members may not vote
·Non-communicant members may not vote
Photo ID will be required for anyone wanting a ballot. There will be tables set up and arranged in alphabetical order to facilitate the process and distribute ballots. A ballot will be required in order to enter the meeting.
The Stated Clerk has also informed us that applicable rules of procedure during the meeting are designed to:
·Protect the rights of the minority,
·Enact the will of the majority,
·Discuss and decide issues in an orderly and fair manner.
Toward that end, he has informed us that no ad hominem arguments should be allowed and speakers must address the issue at hand without impugning the character and motives of others. In other words, slander and speculation will not be permitted.
The Session wants all of you to know just how serious this is. We believe God has called Tullian here and anointed him to lead this church. We firmly believe he is God’s man for this place at this time. The determination to remove a pastor is more than a matter of personal preferences. It goes way beyond what each individual may like or dislike. It requires the discernment of God's will to identify His anointed and is not to be done without much prayerful consideration. For, as the Bible warns, the Lord will not hold him guiltless who acts against God's anointed (1 Sam. 26:9-11).
If you have any questions, please ask an elder. We are praying that these petitioners will not damage the good work God has begun through the ministry of Tullian Tchividjian and we very much look forward to getting this matter behind us once and for all on September 20th. So, please make it a priority to be at the meeting. We need our whole church to come out and vote to keep our pastor.
The elders of Coral Ridge are asking you to pray daily for our church and its ministry. We ask you to pray specifically for our Senior Pastor, Tullian, and his wife Kim, and their three children—Gabriel, Nathan, and Genna. These last five months have taken a toll on our pastor and his young family. They need their church to support them during this trying time.
God bless you,
The Session
This letter is well-written and carefully explains why the meeting must be held and why the Session emphatically believes Pastor Tchividjian should not be removed from office. But, since a slew of charges have been levied against Tullian, I thought it would be best to carefully and thoroughly review these accusations here.
In their letter, Tullian’s detractors included a bullet-point list of grievances against him ranging from the absurd to the mundane. You can view the letter in its entirety here, but for brevity’s sake I will only deal with the specific charges below.
One of the primary complaints was that there was “a complete disregard for the memories, preferences, and legacy of our church and its founding pastor.” Has a more ambiguous statement ever been written? No specifics are given. That being said, shouldn’t the preferences of the new pastor count for more than the preferences of the previous pastor? Also, how does one show disregard to a memory? That doesn’t even make sense.
Tullian has publicly praised Dr. Kennedy and his ministry numerous times since coming to Coral Ridge. After the last townhall meeting held by Tchividjian, I reported:
Pastor Tullian freely acknowledged he was where he was today only because he was standing “on the shoulders of a giant.” He stated he had nothing but the utmost respect for Kennedy and that CRPC would never forget the legacy of their founding pastor while he was here. That being said, Tullian also made clear that the local church was not a legacy ministry and Dr. Kennedy, if he was still here, would be the first to say that.
This echoes everything Pastor Tchividjian has ever said about Kennedy since coming to CRPC (and before!).
Beyond writing a letter calling for a congregational vote to dismiss a pastor, one would think Jennifer Cassidy (Dr. Kennedy’s daughter and one of Tchividjian’s most vocal critics) and his other detractors would provide at least some specifics on how Tullian has shown a “complete disregard” for the legacy of the church and the founding pastor. The omission is baffling. Are we supposed to just take their word for it? Of course, the reason they were unable to provide specifics is because there are absolutely no instances of Tchividjian doing any such thing.
Another complaint first expressed in the letter was concern that the merger had not yet been finalized. This charge is no longer even valid, as the merger was completed a couple of weeks ago. All New City Presbyterian members are now members of CRPC and New City has ceased to exist as a functioning entity.
By far the most serious charge Cassidy made against Tullian was stating that he never explains the gospel in any of his sermons. This charge is so ridiculous it borders on insanity. Rest assured, one of the things I like best about Tullian is his immense love of the gospel. In a recent blog post, he wrote:
As I’ve said before, I once assumed (along with the vast majority of professing Christians) that the gospel was simply what non-Christians must believe in order to be saved, while afterward we advance to deeper theological waters. But I’ve come to realize that “the gospel isn’t the first step in a stairway of truths, but more like the hub in a wheel of truth.” As Tim Keller explains it, the gospel isn’t simply the ABCs of Christianity, but the A-through-Z. The gospel doesn’t just ignite the Christian life; it’s the fuel that keeps Christians going every day. Once God rescues sinners, his plan isn’t to steer them beyond the gospel, but to move them more deeply into it. After all, the only antidote to sin is the gospel—and since Christians remain sinners even after they’re converted, the gospel must be the medicine a Christian takes every day. Since we never leave off sinning, we can never leave the gospel.
One of the stranger charges against Tullian Tchividjian that some have alleged is that a passage from his book, Unfashionable, contradicts the Great Commission. The Great Commission is Jesus’ final charge to his disciples, when he commands them to go forth into the world to make disciples:
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:19,20)
The passage his detractors think counters this charge is found in Unfashionable on page 112:
Our best approach for reaching people in today’s world is not by going door to door and giving evangelistic presentations, passing out evangelistic tracts, or blanketing cities with evangelistic crusades. Our best approach is living with people we’re trying to reach and showing them what human life and community look like when the gospel is believed and embraced.
After comparing this passage from Tchividjian’s book to the Great Commission, one anonymous blogger commented, “It is the possible loss of the Proclamation of the gospel that I am opposed to and that I see in the Pastor's philosophy of ministry.”
I found this odd because the passage, when examined in a fair and unbiased manner, says nothing at all about not evangelizing or witnessing; just that Christians need to be sure to live Christian lives if they want their evangelizing efforts to matter. Pastor Tchividjian supported this interpretation at last month’s town hall meeting. Tchividjian stated all this passage is meant to convey is that evangelizing efforts would not “gain traction” unless Christians were living out their faith – not just talking about it. Tchividjian explained this was a lesson he first learned from his grandfather, Billy Graham. In all honesty, it is about as vanilla a theological passage as you’re going to find.
Lest there be any doubt, however, Tchividjian explicitly stated earlier in his book that both word and deed were needed. On page 62, Tchividjian writes:
Therefore, the mission of the church is spiritual and physical, individual and cultural. God wants us to involve ourselves in the rehabilitation of hearts and houses, souls and society. We’re to care about the renewal of both people and the environment. This requires word and deed, proclamation and demonstration. God is renewing human hearts and recreating all things through his church. This is our mission to the world.
It is a dangerous practice to try to sum up a whole book with one or two sentences and we must be particularly careful not to twist others’ words or take statements out of context.
It seems that Tchividjian’s detractors desperately want to create a false dichotomy – as if we must choose between proclaiming the gospel or living it out in our lives. As Tchividjian eloquently points out, however, this is not a choice we are ever supposed to make. We must do both. We must powerfully proclaim the gospel’s message to a lost and dying world and we must minister to this same world with our lives and actions. As the old hymn proclaims, “They will know we are Christians by our love.”
What makes this all the more puzzling is that Tullian Tchividjian is such a perfect fit for CRPC. Consider:
·Tullian Tchividjian and Dr. D. James Kennedy both strongly believe/believed in Reformed Theology;
·Tullian Tchividjian and Dr. D. James Kennedy both are/were five point Calvinists;
·Tullian Tchividjian and Dr. D. James Kennedy both are/were staunch defenders of the cultural mandate;
·Tullian Tchividjian and Dr. D. James Kennedy both planted small Presbyterian churches in South Florida while they were still young and saw both of them grow at phenomenal rates;
·Tullian Tchividjian attended Westminster Academy, the private school Dr. Kennedy founded;
The similarities are striking! Truly, a better match would have been hard, if not impossible, to find. Yet, instead of welcoming Tchividjian with open arms, Cassidy has decided to tarnish her father’s legacy by using disruptive methods to undermine her father’s successor; at the very time he could have used her support the most.
Fortunately, the congregation has not wavered in its support of Tchividjian. After being voted in with the unanimous support of the elders and with more than a ninety percent majority of the congregation, Tchividjian continues to have the popular support of the congregation. I worry about the damage these attacks will have but ultimately understand that God is in control. In conclusion, I only ask for three things:
1)Pray;
2)If you are a communicant member of CRPC in good standing, please make sure you are in attendance this Sunday so you can vote in the congregational meeting. Also, express your support for Tullian and his family. They are facing difficult circumstances beyond these charges and could use your support and encouragement;
3)Please continue to squash these rumors. Do not let them spread and go unchallenged.
Satan has used discord and petty politics to destroy many churches. CRPC is truly a great church in many ways and has impacted the surrounding community and the country as a whole for decades. Pray that it does not fall victim to the devil’s old tricks.
Remember, comments are welcome (dissenting or otherwise), but be sure to follow the rules and guidelines of this site. If these rules are not followed, comments will be promptly deleted. If in doubt, apply the strictest possible interpretation of the rule in question.
If it is necessary, I will post updates here throughout the week. After the meeting Sunday, I will also provide a recap of it here.
Absolutely! Bless this beutiful church body so that we may be refined through this time...
- Tec
Thank you, Matthew. This is very well written and informative. If I'm ever on the chopping block, I'd hire you to come to my defense!
My only regret is that I did not become a member sooner. I'm in the process now, but I won't be allowed to vote.
- luann
I believe God put Tullian there, and God will keep him there.
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My prayers will be with CRPC this Sunday.
- Michelle
My heart breaks for what my Pastor is being put through. It just seems cruel . Especially given the condition of his Dear Father.I pray God will surround my Dear Pastor and his family with people who will hold him up through this painfully exhausting Trial.
Thanks be to God for our Comforter, Counselor, and Rescuer! In HIM we rest.
Linda Woodall
- Linda Woodall
I have fallen in love with this church, and that can not be said before Tullian came along! There are just so many dimensions of good things sent straight from God that I count my blessings about! God will work through this though and Tullian, his family, and our church will grow stronger because of it.
- Laura Dunn
I grew up at CRPC and attended Westminster Academy and have loved Dr. Kennedy since I was 5 years old but I know that the Lord has called Tullian to be the new pastor. I am no longer a part of CRPC and this just really makes my heart grieve to hear what is going on. My prayers will be with CRPC and with Tullian's family. I shutter to think that the Kennedy family is messing with God's annointed in such a disprespectful, unbiblical way. Be CAREFUL to be obedient to the Scriptures and NOT tradition!!!! If the Lord is to bless CRPC the continual obedience to Scripture and not man's opinions will need to happen! This just makes my heart so grieve!!!! God bless you Tchjividian family!!!! My prayers will be with you fervently!!!!
Jennifer
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This is God's church & HE will decide who will be senior pastor. I believe it's God's will for Tillian to remain in the pulpit. The Lord is soverign & reins forever.........Praise God. I've been a member since 1995 & am so saddened but current events.
Cookie Williams
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I am a friend of Tullien & his family, have been practically all of my life. Tullian is an amazing person, truely a man of God. God has done so many wonderful things in his life & I know in my heart that God put Tullian in the position of head pastor at CRPC. It makes me so sad to hear about what is happening & my thoughts & prayers are with Tullian and all of his family during this trying time. I know that despite all these awful people are trying to do that God's will will prevail through all of this. I truely wish that I was a member of CRPC b/c I would be there Sunday to vote in favor of Tullian.
Sarah Edewaard Hamilton
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Friends,
I rest in the comfort knowing that our Great God is Sovereign over all things. Nothing happens outside his will. No man can thwart his plans. As I reflect back to that glorious first Easter Service when our beloved Pastor was joyfully accepted to receive our call, I know that God's will was done that day.
It has been difficult to see what has transpired these past few months. It has been a testing of my faith as well because of how trying at times, it is to stand by and watch our Pastor & his family suffer through these absurd and ridiculous accusations.
And believe me, that is all that they are.. Nothing that was ever written from the other side was presented with humilty, care, grace, or concern. It has always proven to be written with a hidden agenda or ulterior motive to usurp God's will. And, that is dangerous.
I can tell you from my own personal experience. And, some of you know what I mean. God's will WILL be done. GOD ordained Pastor Tullian to shepard our flock,-- period...end of discussion.
As we can see, it is in God's plan for this one 'new church' to witness to this dying, decaying world and to be a Christian community which demonstrates Godly character and Godly behavior toward one another. We will get through this, together. We will uplift one another in prayer. We will pray for unity. And, we will go back to God's business together with our very transparent pastor leading his flock, knowing that he needs the Gospel daily as we do. (What a comfort that is, in and of itself!)
All of these trials just make our witness to a world that much richer and God is glorified for it. He is high and lifted up and our one new church will stand together as a family. I rest in this comfort and I pray that we can all unite this Sunday and get back to doing God's work.
Pastor Tullian & Kim, -- you are loved by so many. Your faithfulness, and willingness to be used in this way as you go through all these trials has been an encouragement to me. God's people can get through anything because we have God and we have each other! We are all just going through the refiner's fire...which doesn't always feel good at the time, but the rewards are greater then we can ever hope to imagine.
Blessings & Love,
Laura Testa
- Laura Testa
I am a former member of Coral Ridge. My children spent part of their grrowing up years there, as well as Westminster Academy. I taught pre-school at Westminster at that time as well. My parents were very active (Ralph & Sally Mittendorff) and loved Coral Ridge and Dr. Kennedy. My heart hurts that this type of thing is going on. I do believe that God has called Tullian to be the Senior Pastor. I pray God's blessings upon him and his family during this difficult time. I also pray for the leading of the Holy Spirit for the meeting on September 20th. This type of discord is such a WASTE of time! Those that were not content with Tullivan should have left quietly, instead of causing so much division and trouble.
EVERYTHING that I have ever read about Tullian as well as by Tullian - shows that he is truly a man of God and shows the annointing of the Holy Spirit in his life.
The Lord bless you, Tullain, as well as the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church. You will be in my thoughts and prayers on Sunday.
Blessings,
Martha Mittendorff Hunt Joslin
ejoslin981@juno.com
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Tullian's book Unfashionable has redirected me to look at and examine my life... a challenging book for the Christian today to get back to the mission of the church... Funny the truth of this statement - it's always difficult to follow a successful, loved, man in ministry. Tullian is facing things no different that others pastors who find themselves in that position. Interesting how the sister of DJ Kennedy is the tool in the hand of the enemy...truly sad. She is apparently deceived as the fruit of ministry has been completely evident... Many in the church today hold on to 'things' that were sacred/meaningful in the past. In time they become idols, and the truth of God fades in many churches... Tullian is reigniting the message of Christ---DJ Kennedy would be proud!
- B. Elmer
It's funny how the blogmaster won't approve posts that show harmless humor that should be allowed on these sites. Blogmaster Cochrane you get WAY too offended at the harmless posts made by the characters from Sesame Street. I do think Cookie Monster, Yoda and Bert and Ernie would all be excellent representatives of CRPC. I guess it's that cop in you that can't chill out. That holier than thou attitude that takes over.
- Cookie Man
the Yoda post was alright
- c
Here are the two MAIN issues (there are others) that the dissenters have problems with. (And there were over 400 petitions presented, not just 100)
(1) Too many changes, too fast - but that's not even the real issue.
(2) The biggest is Tullian's failure to give a general explanation of how and why one needs to accept Christ as Savior, and then extends the invitation to do so at the end of each sermon. I've listened to just about every sermon online - and it's true - he never has. He talks about the gospel in terms of everyday living - which is very important - but has NEVER explained the work on Calvary and invited someone to accept Christ as Kennedy did in EVERY sermon.
That's what the real hubbub is about. Listen to his sermons. He really never has, and I personally like Tullian very much.
- Craig R.
Craig R.,
I understand your point. However, all preachers do not present the Gospel in all the same ways. I've heard many a fine preachers in addition to Doctor Kennedy share the Gospel in ways that were more expository (like Tullian) and more basic & invitational (like Dr. Kennedy). Neither one is wrong. Both are examples of Godly preaching.
For the dissenters to bring this as a charge is extremely dangerous. The Gospel presentation should never be 'boxed in' or shared in such a way that there is only one true way to present it. In essence, they have made an 'idol' out of their 'Gospel interpretation'. Jesus himself preached the Gospel in many various ways as did the apostles. It is our job to share, but God is the only one that can change someone's heart.
I pray for these 400+ people. That they allow the depth and richness of God's message to penetrate their life & heart & mind. To limit it or try to enforce Tullian to be 'exactly' the same way as Dr. Kennedy is far from Godly character. It displays a worldly preference, that I try daily to fight myself against. Sin is ever present and we must allow ourselves to die daily to the things which take us further away from our Lord.
Thank you for sharing this. For me, it just makes the situation that much more sadder for them...and I will pray that they will allow God to dictate instead of their own will.
Blessings,
Laura
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Tullian Tchividjian and Dr. D. James Kennedy both strongly believe/believed in Reformed Theology;
·Tullian Tchividjian and Dr. D. James Kennedy both are/were five point Calvinists;
·Tullian Tchividjian and Dr. D. James Kennedy both are/were staunch defenders of the cultural mandate;
·Tullian Tchividjian and Dr. D. James Kennedy both planted small Presbyterian churches in South Florida while they were still young and saw both of them grow at phenomenal rates;
·Tullian Tchividjian attended Westminster Academy, the private school Dr. Kennedy founded;
The similarities are striking!
Matthew Cochrane,
Oh geez, similarities would be striking if they were true; unfortunately the major made-up ones you listed and the ones Tullian's administration wants you to think are, in fact, over rated. Lets take a look at them...
-Dr. Kennedy worked his way up to the top. He built his own church and attracted his own congregation. Tullian was "invited" to pastor an all ready existing church and therefore never built one.
-Tullian's short time of education at WA does not mean he is a good fit. First of all, it seems he has a grudge against that school since his was kicked out because he does not even enroll his children there.
-Dr. Kennedy was truly a "staunch defender" of the cultural mandate. We know this for a fact because he stood in the pulpit regularly preaching about hot and current topics. Tullian? I have yet to hear a sermon on abortion, homosexuality, healthcare, education, environmental policy, politics, history, etc. All he preaches about was how he is a "really good" expository speaker (March 15, voting Sunday), 10 weeks of Jonah (I can watch the Vegetales Jonah movie and get more out of it then sitting and listening to his empty, non-saturated gospel sermons), and now a supposedly 8-10 weeks series of campaign sermons on his "new" administration. Do you see anything about the cultural mandate? Nope.
-And about the reformed theology and five point Calvinism... Tullian certainly does not interpret them in his sermon. But wait I forgot, his is an EXPOSITORY speaker!
One major, major concern that was not added in that list of non-similarities is that Dr. Kennedy had always explained what the Gospel is. Tullian never has. What I find that is a common psychological theory is that if you just constantly say a word in your speech, people, who know the meaning of the word all ready, will tend to think that the speaker defined it. So everyone says, "Oh yes! I hear Tullian saying the Gospel every Sunday!!" But when you ask them what is that he said they can't seem to remember, except the fact that they continuously "heard" the word "Gospel" preached.
I hope you better understand the facts before going out and telling everyone what is untrue.
May God be with all of us and guide our thought of others, may he help us to be good and wise Christians by helping us to hold our tongues (Proverbs 17:28), and may he help us to elvaluate our actions before we make them. I pray that it will be God's Will that will be done this Sunday. Amen.
Sincere love and blessing to all of you!
- Why does it concern you?
I have know 'Tutu' for many years both as a dear friend and a mentor as he progressed through his theological training, examination, and ordination into the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. I have seldom, if ever, encountered a young man with such 'fire in his belly' for the things of God. What is so unnerving to those who want their Christianity tighly boxed in solely reformed terminology is that God is doing a new thing in this day which transcends NOT the fundamental of the Faith, but dressing it in new wine skins. Let those who are still entrenched in the 16th century find a place where the fresh wind of the Holy Spirit will not challenge their outdated forms, rituals, and personality cult of the past. george callahan
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Here is a few more facts in addition to the 400 plus petitions.
1. The first vote was taken without the congregation being fully informed of what the pastors vision was. Deceiptive on session and PNC's part..
2.Sinfull acts used to carry out the pastors will.
3. The 6 being banned from the church before being tried for something they were allowed to do.
4. The Presbytery has formed a judicial committee to investigate these actions. This may not be over on Sunday.
I could go on but most people here do not want to hear truth. Get ALL the facts, then make an informed vote on Sunday. Restore integrity and purity at CRPC.
- M
Restore integrity and purity at CRPC. Yes get rid of the dissenters and let them form their own church. I'm so sick of this crap.
- Someone who wants the fighting to end at CRPC
Matt,
The tone of the 'dissenters' are never presented in humilty, grace or love. Why is that? Could it be because there claims are not grounded in truth? I'm just stating the obvious because there was such 'human' preference and thought in the post above from 'Why does it concern you?'.
Based on your blog comment criteria, I would humbly ask for you to delete his post because of the defaming remarks against Tullian's character, especially as it relates to his choice to send his children wherever he sees fit.
Thanks!
Laura
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Sound really humble......."Sick of this crap. Is stating facts "Crap". Let's see which comments will be removed.
- M
M -
I was not speaking about your comment, but the one before yours.
Laura
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I agree with the comments of Laura. The over-all tone of the "dissenters" lacks humility, grace, mercy and love. I do believe that Dr. Kennedy would be the first to agree with this. Such a waste of the Lord's time - all this dissention. Even the way "flyers" were place on cars after the evening service - how childish and ungodly!
The Lord uses his anointed ones in different ways - they don't have to follow the model of Dr. Kennedy - not that Dr. Kennedy wasn't outstanding. But the Lord gives each one of His own different gifts and different ways of using them.
I pray that this will end on Sunday so that Tullian and Coral Ridge can continue on with the work of the Kingdom!
- MJ
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Why does it concern you:
Just playing the Devil's advocate here.....If Kennedy was so effective, how did CR go from a church of 10,000 members to 2,500? It's a fact that what contributed to CR's growth in the 60's and 70's was not really EE, but the EXPLOSION of housing in CR Isles and the surrounding area, and the subsequent influx of conservative snowbirds from northern, liberal mainline churches who found in Kennedy a kindred spirit. It wasn't hard for CR to boom in those days, especially after building a spectacular edifice. But the neighborhood has changed in 40 years - and the influx of northern conservatives is over. It's a totally different "crowd" living near the church now.
The church was DYING before Tullian came. Even the choir members would talk about the Bish/McMurrin/Kennedy "glory days" as if those days of overflowing attendances could never happen again.
Well, apparently, it has.
Also, the days of the Billy Graham/Rex Humbard/Oral Roberts "get out of your seats and come forward altar calls" are over. And the "in your seats" altar calls that Kennedy would make at the end of each sermon seem to be gone, too. BUT, people are responding to something!!! It's undeniable. Altar Calls (in or out of your seats) were really a product of the 19th century anyway.
Maybe they've run their course?
- Craig R.
Glorious days are yet to come again when His WORD will be procaimed again!!!!!!!!!!!!
- M
His word is being proclaimed with Tullian. So M, I guess the glorious days are here.
- A Seer of the Truth
I do not or have never attended Coral Ridge, but recently I started listening to Tullian's podcasts as an addition of regular attendance at my local church and his teachings have encouraged and taught me a great deal. Reading this blog has brought me to tears because of the realization that jealousy and self-reliance (as Tullian constantly says) has such an impact even inside the church. I will be in prayer.
- Demi
Laura,
Do my words offend you? Please forgive me, as I was not directing those comments to you. I was laying out solid facts so everyone and anyone can pick and choose their positions. I have not bashed anyone and I did not show anger towards anyone's posted comments; I have written in "humility, grace, and love." I have the right to voice my concern and thoughts just as much as you do. So if you do not like what you call a "dissenter’s" comments, then leave it. Why are you trying to shut up someone's voice just because they do not agree with yours?
I hope you, and many others, will follow Proverbs 17: 28 and keep any last comments to yourself. I am sure Matthew Cochrane would think it would help keep the comment section free of verbal abuse and hatred. Thank you.
-------------------------------------
Sorry Matthew, you may delete the first comment... Some how it did not go through completly.
- Why does it concern you?
Craig R.,
Thanks for playing the Devil's advocate... I appreciate your comment.
The simple fact is that the pastors of these days are conforming to the world and not standing true to the Gospel and Christianity. How has alter calls, in or out of your seats, been a past generation thing? Jonathan Edwards back in the 1700s preached the truth without the concern of what others may think. He was a vibrant preacher who lived what he preached and made sure no one took God and Christianity lightly. Unfortunately, now it seems that the pastors are so desperate to make Christians that they are allowing the religious foundation to have some wiggle room so the outsiders can think going to church is cool. People are walking away from sanctuaries with empty hearts, minds, and souls. They are not being feed "spiritual food." It seems that pastors, now, are afraid to proclaim the truth. Why should they, when we still have the first amendment protecting our right to free speech and our free exercise of religion!
Christianity is Christianity. The pastors are attempting new ways to outreach to the community when really the best way is to do it the way Jesus did, which is what real preachers did in the past.
Do you have anything else to add to why this maybe happening? I would like to know your thoughts. Thank you.
- Why does it concern you?
Why does it concern you,
You did not offend me, but your comments are not grounded in truth. You claim that Tullian was invited here and did not begin as Dr. Kennedy, from the ground up. Are you forgetting, that he was invited just a few years ago to plant New City and within those few years, their congregation grew to 600 people? Do you honestly believe that Coral Ridge was growing at that rate? Maybe back in the hay day, but not lately.
Also, you claim he has a 'grudge' against the school because his children are not attending there. First of all, it is no one's business where he sends his children to school. However, for the sake of argument, let's assume that he was concerned for his children's adaptability. They have been attending Calvary for quite some time and I am sure have established relationships & roots there. I would believe that they are very thoughtful in their decision making process. And, in light of all the turmoil that has transpired these past few month, I believe it was a wise decision to NOT bring their children over to WA.
It also appears from not only you but others, that a majority of the disappointment lies with 'the elders'. If in fact this is true, please name them. I do agree that if there are people in positions of power that are not acting accordingly, they should humbly step down because in essence, their conduct is not reflecting honorably for themselves, the position they hold, and for Pastor Tullian.
But, time & time again, 'elders' are never named directly. Please enlighten us to the elders who you believe to be corrupt? I am open to this and would like the opportunity to investigate for myself. But, hiding under the guise in general terms does not win your argument.
You are entitled to your opinion but as I stated earlier, the comments that you made were more subjective & assuming in nature.
Blessings to you,
- Laura Testa
Why Does it concern you:
Again, back in the 60's and 70's, the neighborhoods were full of retired, northern, mostly conservative WASPS. Kennedy was preaching to the choir! That is no longer the case. The crowd is younger, more ethnic....and most have no religious affiliation whatsoever.
Let me ask you one question.
Think about this seriously: Look at that type of person - young, ethnic, secular, even antagonistic toward God.
WHO WOULD HAVE A BETTER SHOT AT REACHING THOSE PEOPLE?
Kennedy or Tullian?
The answer is obvious. It's not even close.
- Craig R.
1 Timothy 5:19: Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
Where are the two or three witnesses who will stand up and tell us the sin or heresy in Pastor Tullian's life?
I know there are 400 signatures calling for His removal. The charge: Not preaching politics, but instead preaching verse by verse, and using Biblical Evangelistic methods, not "pray the prayer decisional regenerationism" (a modern false-teaching).
It seems Coral Ridge is finally more Presbyterian and standing more in line with the teachings of John Calvin and Scripture than ever before.
I wonder how many of the 400 signatures are shut-ins and members that havent walked in the doors of the church in the last 5 years, or are Christmas-Easter only members?
Here is my advice to the 400 dissenters: 1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
John 1:12-13: But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
-
Has anyone read Tim Keller's "Prodigal God"? If you haven't, please do. It can cause a paradigm shift in how you view the church's place in the world - and our place in the church. Whichever side you fall on this issue, do yourself a favor and read it before you vote.
-
Oops forgot to sign my name to the above post - it's Stephanie Brown. Age 40. Sinner. :)
- Stephanie
Point One: I have been an active member of CRPC for 36 years. When I was called to represent CRPC on the pulpit nominating committee, searching for a new senior pastor for the first time in our church's history, my thoughts went to this question -- why do my children, (and those of many other of our officers) who are Christian adults, not want to come to church at Coral Ridge? They were going to other Broward churches. Why was Coral Ridge no longer attractive to the generation of my children? My aim in searching for a new senior minister was to find someone who would bring CRPC back to becoming relevant to young adults and young families, just as Dr. Kennedy did for my neighbors in the 1960s.
Tullian has answered that call, and my children again worship at CRPC. Praise God.
Point Two: Craig R. says above that Dr. Kennedy proclaimed the gospel of the cross in every sermon. Oh really? In the last 15 years I must have heard 100 sermons on the science of Genesis, and only a few of them were ever directly connected to the cross. Ten sermons on Jonah were nothing, compared to 75 sermons on the history of United States politics. I hear CRPC members complain about the short review Tullian gives in his recent series. How many times did I hear the exact same sermon on Abraham Lincoln or Merry Tifton?
Point Three: The Gospel. Yes, I too wish that Tullian would get more specific about the cross, the penalty paid for my sin, and my personal response to Christ's sacrifice. But for the dissenters to believe that The Gospel is only correct if the five points of Evangelism Explosion are presented in the correct order, and only counts if done in a cold calling knock on someone's door or accosting someone in a laundromat....wow. The new X EE has been designed just for today's culture, which is a relational style of EE, living out The Gospel in a relationship with the "target," "earning the right" to present the good news of Jesus. EE has been redesigned to relate to today's culture. Our church, too, must respond with the Good News of Jesus, lived out in its members, who themselves become so attractive to a fallen culture, that our church grows "from the inside out," as its members and its message call out to our culture.
I praise God for Tullian, and for the impact he has had on my family, my life, my church, and our culture. I look forward to growing old with Tullian as my pastor and my friend.
Ken Key
-
Ken,
I must agree - the sermons on Lincoln, Washington, evolution, politics in general, were way overdone. But it wasn't too often that Kennedy didn't, even if only in a few sentences, explain the cross and invite non-believers to accept Christ.
But you're right - alot of the decline of membership at CR over the years was due to Kennedy's incapability at best, unwillingness at worse, to adapt to the culture. He was a great man - for his time - but he could not relate to the younger crowd. Case in point: the KJV. I'm sorry, people do not speak in that language anymore.
Even on his TV programs, when he would ask nonbelieving viewers to repeat with him the "sinner's prayer", they would have to repeat words and phrases they'd never heard before: "O Thou God of Hosts, would that I could laud thee henceforth forevermore....."
Beautiful poetry - and no one recited it better than he did in his Charlton Heston "Ten Commandments" voice - but it didn't "take" with the younger crowd.
Most people at CR understand that - and that's why Tullian is so popular. He can relate.
- Craig R.
Ken, you know our Contemporary Service was vibrant and growing with young people attending and participating before the merger. They have been dismissed and ignored.These actions were not admirable!!!!!!!!!!!!
- M
Mr Cochrane - what was so inappropriate about my last remarks? I was going to thank you for letting people discuss things here - pro and con. I was being very honest . I really wish - like Ken - that Tullian would explain the cross more - and I am really torn on how to vote.
And "M"'s comments on corruption. Why can't any of that be discussed? There' s no name calling or slander going on. It's just important conversation.
What's so inapproproate about that?
(At least on CRPC FOR ALL, they'll print everything -which is fair)
- Craig R.
Craig R. and everyone else,
Why are you torn on how to vote? It is simple, do you want the figure or do you want the Gospel?
If you are a Christian, I am sure you will vote for Jesus (the Gospel) and not the young, cool-looking, surfer dude.
- Why does it concern you?
Because people ARE responding to him. You can't deny that. And I don't think it's just because he's cool-looking.
- Craig R.
My only concern is - are people being given the chance to accept Christ. Do they understand the whole Calvary story. Do they understand the cross and all it means? That's my only concern - because I've really never heard him explain it. Know what I mean?
- Craig R.
Why should people be responding to him? They need to respond to the Gospel. So if they are responding to Tullian instead of the Gospel they, including the pastor, have everything backwards. Since you agree that Tullian does not touch on the cross a lot, then the people are responding not to the Gospel but to the speaker. Bascially he is collecting "fans," so to speak. Does that click?
- Why does it concern you?
Yes I do Craig R. And that is what our concern should be when we vote on Sunday.
- Why does it concern you?
I would just hate to turn away a man who I think is a great preacher - to the converted. I think his sermons are great. I'd take a "Jonah sermon" over a "Why I love Thomas Jefferson sermon" any day. I don't want sound nasty here - and I mean this in the most sincere of ways - but - I rather not have another Kennedy.
And who knows, are we to judge whether his sermons are reaching the hearts of the lost? IS that for us to say?
I'm sorry "Why does it concern you" ........but I still don't know about all of this.....
- Craig R.
And furthermore...............
It's hard to turn away someone who has brought CR back from the dead.
- Craig R.
I understand Craig R. many people want change, but we must ask ourselves, "Is this the type of change we want?" All the facts are clearly laid out. It is your job to evaluate, pray, and vote the best way. I am not here to change your mind, but God is with you to clear out any confusion and to help you not be torn. Just please I would recommend you and everyone, "dissenters" a like, to pray, pray, and pray without ceasing until God puts something in your hearts to be a strong Christian solider for Him and nothing else.
Best regards,
- Why does it concern you?
Why does it concern you... you said, "If you are a Christian, I am sure you will vote for Jesus (the Gospel) and not the young, cool-looking, surfer dude."
So are you implying that if we vote to keep Tullian as our pastor then we're not a Christian? Please be careful how you judge others. Think before you "speak" (or write).
If you are a member, which it sounds like you are, certainly as you look around each Sunday you can see how the church is thriving, which could NOT be said when my husband and I arrived 3 years ago. CRPC was a church that really truly was dying off and bringing in a younger senior minister who could once again make it "relevant to young adults and young families" as Ken Key put it, IS just what we needed to get it off life support.
I sincerely believe God has brought Tullian to Coral Ridge to lead us for such a time as this, and I look forward to continuing to grow under his leadership for decades to come. We are fiercely praying for an end to this matter and for protection for our flock and our pastor. Let's move on to the Kingdom business and reaching our community for Christ!
Also, as another side point, I think it is very sad for you to have listened to the entire Jonah series and to say that you could get more out of watching the VeggieTales "Jonah" movie than you did from that series of sermons. I learned so much from that series and, thankfully, I will never be able to read the book of Jonah again without thinking about all the points that those sermons brought to light for me.
- KareBear
Craig R.,
Also remember that most of all these greivances are about 'personal preference' and that in and of itself is dangerous. Tullian himself said it a few weeks ago that we come to 'feast' on God...we are NOT there to be entertained by the soloist or even by him. GOD needs to be in that place and we humbly invite him in and feast on him alone.
It takes the focus off of the people & objects and puts all the attention onto our Lord Jesus Christ. It amazes me how the dissenters don't see this? All the outside 'noise' of possible mishandlings from elders et al are clouding their judgement I believe. Because of our 'human nature', we are unable to separate and view objectively and listen with a clear mind.
I see GOD first. I see GOD using Tullian (as an instrument for HIS sovereign will, not man's) and I see GOD drawing people to Coral Ridge. Let's look up First, shall we?
- Laura Testa
KareBear,
I wholeheartedly agree! Jonah is NOT just a story about a man getting stuck in a fish for 3 days.. it is so much more!!!
Laura
- Laura Testa
Well, OK, Laura, I'll buy all of that ...
But what about Tullian not explaining Calvary and the cross and inviting people to accept Christ. That's not a personal preference, that's a mandate.
He never really explains the whole thing. He just never does.
And as I've said before here, I LOVED Jonah. I really like Tullian very much, but the Cross thing does bother me because that is central.
- Craig R.
Craig R.,
I respect your point and would encourage you & others to approach him directly about it (instead of on the blogs). Remember, his style is different and not all pastors present it in the same way.
- Laura Testa
How can we go forward without repentance. When the searchlight on sin gets brighter the comments get deleted. Again what are we teaching our children. Sweep it under the rug?
- M
My family and I have just recently moved to South Carolina from Fort Lauderdale where we were members of CRPC. We have been members for aproximately a year although our children have been at WA for 4 years and we have had the privelege of attending countless CRPC functions during our years prior to joining. I have been listening to Tullien for a very long time on his radio broadcasts on WAFG. I was always extremely impressed with his wisdom and Bible knowlege as he answered "call-in" questions...many being extremely difficult and controversial. In addition to his accuracy with his answers, something that always came across clearly in these conversations was his love for the callers and his genuine concern for their welfare...spiritually and personally. I always marveled at his unusual discernment and insight for a man in his 30's and was continually blessed by these broadcasts. When my family and I learned of Dr. Kennedy's passing ( a great, great man!) the first person we all spoke of as a possible replacement was Tullian...we immediately felt hopeful at this possiblility and began to pray for this (only of course if it was God's will.) We had the joy of voting for Tullien and were overjoyed at his election!!! I also have been delighted to meet and talk to Kim who is as genuine, humble and loving as her husband.....she is a true gift to this church body!!!! We are getting updates constantly since we moved recently and are pretty horrified by the actions of these antagonists. We believe that God placed Tullien in this pulpit for such a time as this. We will pray that this church body will pray according the the will of the Lord this Sunday and hope that Tullian and Kim will soon have the joy of a supportive, unified Body that can put their focus fully on ministry instead of constant conflict from a disgruntled minority. In all of this process, may God be glorified in a powerful, beautiful way and may CRPC be exactly what HE and HE ALONE wants it to be....since that's all that really matters. God bless this church and Tullian's wonderful
- Linda James
Oh and Craig R., on the blog you referenced, they absolutely DO NOT print everything you submit. I have submitted at least 10 comments that were thoughtfully written, but were supportive of Tullian. Only 2 or 3 have been printed. So you are wrong, my friend.
- Stephanie
DITTO STEPHANIE!
- Dexter Poitier
OK, my bad on that one. I've only put a couple things on there - and they printed both.
- Craig R.
My husband and I, along with several close Christian’s friends in the Chattanooga and Soddy Daisy, TN area are praying for your church now and particularly for the vote that will take place this Sunday. We are very familiar with CRPC through the ministry of the late Dr. D. James Kennedy. Sadly, this news has reached us via the Chattanooga Times Free Press, as well as Moody Radio. Pastor Tchividjian is in good company with the Apostle Paul who had problems in every one of his churches. Our heart goes out to him and his family. When a pastor is attacked, it always goes beyond him personally. It hurts his family, his friends, our Lord's church (the bride of Christ) and most importantly turns lost people further away from the things of God. Please allow me to recommend a most wonderful resource that would be beneficial for people on both sides of the issue: The Wounded Minister, by Guy Greenfield, Ph.D, will touch the heart of anyone who has ever been involved in church conflict. It will compel you to take measures to stand in the gap for your shepherd. If you’ve been a player in the abusive action, it will open your eyes to the widespread damage and destruction that’s done when we choose to go against God’s anointed. I’m thankful so many of you are standing in the gap for your pastor. Your brothers and sisters in Tennessee are standing with you.
- Vicki Suttle Soddy Daisy, TN
I would urge all who prepare for the vote on Sunday, September 20th, to do so by spending time in earnest, humble PRAYER before the Almighty, Sovereign God. This is not an issue to be taken lightly. Psalm 5 is a prayer that David prays for protection from the wicked. (Whoever the wicked may be in your eyes.) Psalm 5:6 speaks to the fact that, "You destroy those who tell lies." May the TRUTH be told and those who vote will answer to on ONE and only ONE for their vote.
To which ever side this applies take note, v. 10 "Declare them guilty, O God! Let their intrigues be their downfall. Banish them for their many sins, for they have rebelled against You."
- RMKJ
RMKJ, my brother, lighten up a little.
It's a serious vote, but at least from Tullian's side, his life does not end with this vote. His kingdom building and work for the Lord does not end if his relationship with Coral Ridge ends. And if he is voted out, it is not an indication that God has "destroyed those who tell lies." Nor does indicate God has "declared them guilty".
It's so annoying when people take scripture and twist it to "prove" God's will in a matter. NONE of us know God's motives or plans - and it is presumptuous to assume this vote will lay it all out for us to see. Let's just prayerfully show up on Sunday, vote and wait to see what happens. Then let's go back to doing God's work and maybe someday in hindsight this will all make sense.
- Stephanie
I agree with you, Stephanie....about all the scripture quoting....God will do what He will do.........
- Craig R.
I'll probably vote to keep Tullian. It's been nice talking to all of you. Thanks, Matt, for letting all of us vent/share/complain/express, etc.........I appreciate it. I've learned a lot just from what I've read the past few days.
- Craig R.
9/20-2009;
Were New City members allowed to be given ballots and voting???
- Paulus
Just a note.
Please be mindful of the tone. There are some that are self-righteous and presumptuous, thinking they know God's Will.
Let's just worship and pray the Lord's Will, whatever it turns out to be.
Grace and Peace.
- Cindy
welcome to blogsville; love in any language fluently spoken here; just differently
- c
if at first you don't succeed, lower your standards
- c
It appears the Presbytery of South Florida has ruled in favor of the six dissidents. Perhaps now this will be properly dealt with as it should have been last year. I sure hope the session will not allow this to go to a church trial, but it is difficult to say. This should not be good for Tullian, but I hope there is reconciliation on all sides.
- Mark
What has happened to the crowd at CRPC? Where have they gone? The parking lot looks mighty empty when I drive by on Sundays. It's sad that the viciousness did not stop with the vote. Glad to have found another church to worship.
