|
|
August 4, 2007, Matthew Cochrane, Saturday Matinee, 8/4/07: Prosperity Gospel
In recent years the phony-baloney, health and wealth, prosperity gospel movement has exploded once again. With televangelists conning money from their viewers and listeners daily, the name of God is continually tarnished by these modern day hucksters. What’s worse is how their message has so cheapened the gospel. They claim that Christ came to deliver us from lives of mediocrity, pain, sickness, and poverty. In reality, Jesus came so that we might be delivered from our sins and thus be spared God’s eternal wrath and be able to spend eternity with Him in Heaven. To exchange that truth for the “Christ died so we can have a better car and a nice house” message debases the gospel beyond recognition.
In this edition of Saturday Matinee we look at some of the preposterous claims of the “Prosperity Gospel” movement and a fitting conclusion by John Piper. These clips would almost be funny if these “preachers” were not deceiving so many.
Anointed Handkerchiefs and Miracle Spring Water
Various clips edited together showing the fraudulent promises given to those who give generously to these “ministries.” The whole thing is good but it gets downright hilarious at the 1:40 mark. Just make sure you “follow the instructions” when you get your bottle of miracle spring water:
T.D. Jakes making a pitch for TBN
Just “sow what you have” folks and the “blessing is yours…the business is yours…the property –HEY! – the property is yours.”
Ammo for Non-Christians
Sadly, unbelievers see through this mess far faster than most Christians. Here a group of comedians make fun of the many “preachers” asking their viewers to buy a miracle:
Joel Osteen’s Brand of the Prosperity Gospel
Total victory means financial victory? Freedom from low self-esteem?
John Piper’s Take on the Prosperity Gospel
Finally, some words of wisdom offered by John Piper on the riches of the true gospel compared to the lies of the prosperity gospel:
|
| Comments |
| Those videos are almost too painful to watch. I can only imagine what God thinks of them. Thankfully, there are still many many pastors laboring in large and small churches all across the country who remain faithful to the true gospel message. Thanks for sharing these. - Popster |
|
| The only video I could watch completely was John Piper's. The others are too disturbing. - dlg |
|
| "Ever since I used my neck stopped hurting...my whole body feels good." Sign me up!!! - :) |
|
| “Prosperity” gospel? …I have heard DJ Kennedy preach on how you can’t “outgive” God also…he would tell how he actually gave back OVER 100 percent of his income from his church, yet still lived a great life. God provided for him, he said, indicating all listening to him could do the same, or give it a try. A less than stable church goer listening to this could try to do the same, and find himself penniless from listening to Kennedy say that. You could take snippets of Kennedy’s sermons over the years and make him sound nuts and/or greedy…and he is not. Don’t get me wrong, I think all these guys on the videos here are con men aiming at Christians….except Joel O. He seems to be very disliked here on this website. To me, as a person, he comes across as a caring person who has probably done more for God’s plan than most of us, so who wants to throw the first stone? Oh, wait. I guess I should say why keep throwing stones at him? Cause he doesn’t fit in to the exact groove you want him to? He doesn’t answer questions the way “you” would? He’s too soft and mushy for all you “he-men”?! Listen, I have heard quotes from Saint Augustine, here on this website, that make him sound like a real wing nut. I have to assume they are just snippets taken out of context. The last video certainly was dramatic, and effective, but I don’t know…maybe a bit overdone? The picture in my mind of the dead child and all else that was described…the use of the music and audio and special effects were certainly powerful, but there is something theatrical about it…and dark. I don’t know how “real” it is…what happened to “joy” and positive reasons to embrace the gospel I have also heard Kennedy speak on how God is your Father…and if HE loved you enough to send his only begotten son to die for YOU, then how can you not have a feeling of self worth given to you by God himself. I don’t think God wants you to feel like a loser all your life, and some people are plagued with emotional problems and feelings of poor self worth due to childhood traumas, or whatever. (such as our sex addicted church leader mentioned in previous posts who blames all on his childhood) A good minister of the gospel would certainly want these people to have some healing there. What’s wrong with that? A minister speaks on hundreds if not thousands of subjects over 20 or 30 years I would bet. You could make a video of any one of them and portray them anyway you choose, if you wanted to do that. Where’s the joy of the Gospel? Let’s lighten up a bit on Joel O…why not leave Joel to God, and just show Joel love. God is in heaven and in charge of Joel O as well as everyone else. Isn’t that the Christ-like way of treating our fellow humans? I don’t think he deserves being thrown in with the charlatans in the other videos. - Big B |
|
| Big B, You say these snippets of Joel Osteen are taken out of context but as far as I know this is the ONLY message Joel Osteen has ever preached. His one and only book is entitled "Your Best Life Now," and is all about focusing on the here and now, not about the eternal. Kennedy has written countless books and not one that I know of focuses on anything of this kind. I don't believe the clip of Osteen is taken out of context at all but is rather the central focus of his ministry. As far as the "he-man" I really don't know what you're talking about. If you were more specific though I could try to address that too. My criticism of Osteen though has nothing to do with him being sensitive or anything of the kind, but rather for preaching a misleading gospel. - Matthew Cochrane |
|
| Also what Augustine quote do you think is out of context? - Matthew Cochrane |
|
| I think I agree with the Osteen bashers on this one. Personally, I find him to be extraordinarily personable; a really nice guy type of person. But, as a preacher, he has some serious problems. His version of the gospel is all one-sided. Traditionally, for thousands of years, God's children have understood His promises to mean that they would be intimately involved in a relationship with the King of the Universe; not made healthy, wealthy and wise. Look how God allowed those twelve men who were closest to him here on earth to be treated. They were jailed, beaten, tortured and executed - all of them! Further, Stephen was executed and Paul was harassed, beaten, starved, jailed and then executed. According to Osteen this would be due to sin on their part; that God would have wanted them to be wealthy and successful; not poor and convicted felons. - Steamboat Willlie |
|
| Matthew…look up on youtube a video clip titled “Joel Osteen closing prayer” and please comment on what you hear. It sounds pretty much like many I have heard by DJK and other born again Christian pastors. Every good pastor has a special and unique personality and flavor to what they say and do from the pulpit. I think JO is more like a pastor who counsels hurting souls from the pulpit. Joel Osteen went briefly to Oral Roberts University I think, and he makes no bones about his lack of theological education.. When I watch him, though, I really feel he is a man who really shows God’s love, and I feel that he extends that love as much as he can and I think he goes out of his way to not be judgemental or arrogant. It’s like he is a pastor/counselor more than someone you would go to for a bible study. Who’s to say there’s not a need for both types of pastors in the church today. There are a whole lot of people in these days who had horrible childhoods…worse than at any time in history I would say. He speaks to these people…it is not a self esteem thing for shallow people, its him giving people reassurance that God loves them just the way they are, and doesn’t want them to be as miserable as they are, still hurting from childhood or life experiences. Like I said, I heard DJK saying the same thing, just in a different manner. He speaks and you listen to his caring attitude as well as his words. I watched a youtube clip by someone criticizing JO, and dryly listing how JO was wrong and lacking in so much…and I couldn’t wait for the 8 minute clip to be over. The guy might have had technical points, but he lost me in his delivery. JO not only draws people to Christ , but he helps heal them emotionally, lets them know God really does love them no matter what or who they are. To us who had loving families who raised us, maybe we forget how important and devastating it would be to not have had that, and the effects that lack has on someone for their entire lives. JO hits a nerve with people who have the need to hear what JO has to say. Not everyone has the thirst for deep technical biblical knowledge the way DJK can give it to you…some people, many people, are mired down in their current lives and in deep despair and need to hear that God loves them…even “them”. I think JO does a great job of showing love and non judgemental acceptance of all people. Plus, he does preach the gospel, he just does a lot of counseling from the pulpit also. I don’t think that’s a sin…that’s just where his strength is…helping people thru the “here and now”. Listen to the youtube clip I reference, and tell me it isn’t a good thing for the Kingdom of God that the thousands of people who come to hear him every single week hear the gospel message he does proclaim, like he does in the closing prayer. That’s not the only time he proclaims it, and he does have his niche, but he is doing more to bring people to Christ than most. You can’t argue with success. (success = people coming and hearing the gospel) He reaches more people than most preachers with degrees in higher education and he does it with obvious love. He can’t be all things to all people. I used to be a DJK junkie…hanging on every word coming out of his highly educated brain. It fascinated me. It educated me. It inspired me…but there’s a definite place for JO and his "counseling from the pulpit" approach. Just be glad you aren’t one of those people that need to hear the message he gives out to them…you got that message from loving parents already. Many did not.
- Big B |
|
| my he-man comment was to say that maybe men don't like him because he is so soft spoken and not tough at all. Maybe he is thought of as too effeminate or something. - Big B |
|
| I am painfully ignorant about Augustine. I am the first to admit it. However, I have read things here about him like he held his hands over his ears and ran out of church because he enjoyed the music? Something like that. And there is a paragraph in the sex addicted church leader’s article about Augustine, stating Augustine prayed to overcome his enjoyment of food instead of taking it as medicine, and bemoaned enjoying other things God has given us to enjoy, such as music, sweet scents, knowledge, lust, etc. Sorry, but if you knew anyone like that today you would not look at them as a saint. You would think they were a nut, and a weak one as well. I hope there’s more to his story, and I am just getting these snippets out of context, because I find his behaviour strange and unstable from the little I have heard. Am I missing more to this story? I hope so. - Big B |
|
| Steamboat Willie, I never heard JO say that if you are experiencing hard times or not being successful, its because of your sin. When or where does he say that? - Big B |
|
| Who all likes Mountain Dew Light? - MDC |
|
| Big B, Augustine was anything but normal. He was brilliant (maybe one of the greatest philosophers who ever lived and undoubtedly one of the finest Christian thinkers ever) but a bit eccentric. I assure you those quotes were not taken out of context. They might not have been set up as thoroughly as one would like but they're not out of context. - Matthew Cochrane |
|
| Well, Matthew..."eccentric"? If what I read is true, he was weak, just to start off with. Why didn't he draw strength from God to withstand the horrible "sin" of enjoying music, instead of running out of a church with his ears covered? "Brilliant"? "Finest Christian thinker"? "Great philosopher"? I was always taught to consider the source of something you hear or read. No matter what supposed brilliance came out of his mouth, his own personal life indicates total weakness...God does give you strength, so you don't have to cover your ears to not hear music...I mean...what would he have done if the music had reached his brain? Fell apart? I think his life should have reflected some sort of balance, some sort of strength he got from God if he truly understood the word of God...someting other than beating himself up because he enjoyed his dinner. C'mon. If you can't respect a man, how can you listen to what he says and elevate him to a saint worthy of being quoted all this time later? His personal life is an embarrassment to Christians from the little I read. But don't call him a bit eccentric. You are making excuses for him caues you like his writings or cause someone has held him up to you as a great Christian thinker. I don't think its great Christian thinking to think God never wanted you to enjoy things he gave you. I think its a slap in God's face from an ungrateful and unbalanced heart. - Big B |
|
| Also, Matthew, please comment on the video clip to which I referred of Joel Osteen... - Big B |
|
| I got a prayer handkerchief once. I never had heard of it before until a co-worker of mine told me how she used it. Apparently she prayed over it and put it under her husband's pillow and the next day he quit smoking. I thought she was off her rocker. Couple months later I overheard her telling someone else that her husband was a smoker. - Dorcy |
|
| Steamboat Willie, I never heard JO say that if you are experiencing hard times or not being successful, its because of your sin. When or where does he say that? - Big B
Well, it's hard to take notes from a video like this but here's what I heard Osteen say:, "We have a right to live in total victory (Well, ok, I guess but total victory over what? He seems to explain in detail.) . . . to be totally free from poverty and lack (Well there are so very many Christians living in poverty around the world in virtually every continent that it's hard to see how they could all be missing God's will. Just take the Christians in Ethiopia; they must obviously be living out of God's will for them to be in such abject and total poverty) . . . You may have had pain for years and you think it's your lot in life . . . you have a right to be abundantly free . . . God created you to walk in divine health (I have a right to walk in divine health? Since when? Even the apostle Paul had eye troubles. Many of my close family members have been afflicted with crippling and debilitating diseases as are hundreds of millions of other Christians around the world? Are they all falling short of God's will? Again, Osteen said we have a "right" to walk in divine health. I was always taught that the only "right" we had, Biblically, was to go to Hell and that it was Grace that saved us; not our rights.) . . . "you were not created to be average." (Since when are Christians not average? Even Abraham Lincoln said that God must have loved the average man because He made so many of them. Does Osteen really believe that we somehow become superhuman when we confess and beieve? Not in my Bible.) I guess what I am saying is that if we are all (Osteen excluded, of course) living so far out of God's will then it must be due to some lack, or sin, on our part; not on Gods abillity to make us healthy, wealthy and wise. - Steamboat Willie |
|
| Steamboat…that’s all you got on JO to back up your statement? If so, not convincing. You do a lot of the common debate tactic of IF “blah blah blah”, then “blah blah blah” MUST be SO, and that’s a big jump you take sometimes from the “if” to the “so”. A simple google search showed me a few things about JO…and I would sum him up as a Bible believing Christian who’s calling is more of a positive thinking proponent than a Pastor of the type of DJ Kennedy. I have heard DJ speak on the same things JO speaks about, and nobody faulted him for that, granted DJ balanced it with fuller knowledge and teaching, but DJ was qualified to do that. He was educated. JO is NOT educated. He doesn’t claim to be, freely admits it, and says he just wants people to know God loves them and doesn’t want them to be living in misery. I think he speaks to the middle ground there…not people who are in the midst of a tradedy or incurable illness…but the average person who complains about their lot in life and isn’t grateful for what they have been given by God. He reaches more people than most preachers do, or ever have, and he does give the gospel message that nobody here should disagree with, just look at the video clip I asked Matthew to comment on. (No comments yet, by the way) People in the church are so good at finding fault, unfortunately. That’s probably where that bible verse about get the log out of your eye instead of worrying about the speck in someone else’s came from…and JO is a welcome refreshing person to listen to…its that easy. Nobody says get all your theological knowledge from him, least of all him. So, be glad people are coming to a saving knowledge of Christ by listening to him, and then, encouraged by JO, they join a local church for the meat of the knowledge they need. Don’t mock him or label him...See what he does that IS winning people to God and be glad about it. We all would do well with a positive attitude, wouldn't we? When you think about it, why don't all Christians have one? Maybe that's JO's thing...he wants you to get one and explains why we should have one as Christians. - Big B |
|
| Big B, Steamboat directly quoted the clip from Osteen. It is pretty well known that Osteen's message is of the health-n-wealth-God-will-prosper-you variety. His book is full of these lessons for the here and now. His sermons are full of advice like eat a good breakfast so you'll feel better and be healthier (direct example I've heard him preach about). I think Steamboat nailed the essence of Osteen's message. - Mean Gene |
|
| Big B, I have to side with Steamboat Willie and Mean Gene on this one. I have no problem with a preacher who lacks a formal seminary education (Bob Coy of Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale and Jim Cymbala of Brooklyn Tabernacle are just two examples off the top of my head who have no such education but have led excellent ministries). Also, while Dr. D. James Kennedy has been a faithful minister for years, his sermons are not perfect either. Regardless, his theology is not the subject of this post. I was just interested in showing examples of "prosperity gospel" preachers, of which Joel Osteen is a prime example. Business Week ran an article entitled "Meet the Prosperity Preacher" all about Osteen. Its really not something he denies. The focus of his ministry has always been this. - Matthew Cochrane |
|
| You can access the Business Week article here: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_21/b3934014_mz001.htm
- Matthew Cochrane |
|
| Big B, I really tried hard not to make uses of any "debate tactics" when I commented on Osteen. That's why I used direct quotes from his sermon. Nevertheless, I noticed that you really did not answer my specific examples. Osteen says we have the "right to walk in divine health". I don't think I know of any family, Christian or non-Christian, that has "devine health"; mine certainly hasn't. Now, either we are guilty of failing to accept this gift of devine health or it was never freely promised to us. Which is it? I have not found such a promise in the Bible. Either it is there as Osteen claims or it isn't. Either we are sinning by not claiming it and for not having our families claim it or claiming on behalf of our families or whatever, or Osteen is sinning by telling us we have a devine "right" to something that God never promises. This, by the way, comes very close to blaphemy. - Steamboat Willie |
|
| Big B, would it not logically follow that, if we claim the "right" to devine health that Osteen says we should, then we wouldn't need doctors or medicine? I mean, why get medical treatment if we have a "right" to this devine health? In this regard it is interesting to note that Luke was called "our dear and glorious physician" by the apostles; those who should have known better than anyone about a devine right to health. Why would Luke need to treat them if they were enjoyng Godly health? - Steamboat Willie |
|
| Big B, one more thing. Osteen says we a right to be "totally free from poverty and lack". Interestinigly, Paul, when relating some of his trials and tribulations said, "I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers. I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 2 Corinthians 11:23-27. It would seem that Paul had never experienced the rights that Osteen says are there for us all. Just my opinion. - Steamboat Willie |
|
| In 2 Cor 8 & 9, Paul sounds a bit prosperity oriented so it has its place but in balance with other scripture. - cdl |
|
| Big B, I viewed "Joel Osteen's Closing Prayer" and it was a typical evangelical invitation/prayer of decision. There are probably plenty of segments like that that you could show me of Osteen's where I would have little or nothing to object to but that was never my point. My point was that Osteen's here and now messages of health and wealth are not Biblical. Jesus did not die so that we wouldn't suffer from lack or poverty or illness - He came so that we could be delivered from sin and subsequent eternal punishment. - Matthew Cochrane |
|
| Here's a couple things to read and I will post answers later...
1) an article by John Armstrong...
http://johnharmstrong.typepad.com/john_h_armstrong_/2005/05/the_popularity_.html
2) an excerpt of another article by JA...
In some ways, this harkens back to my blogs in May (2005) on Joel Osteen. I have been told that Osteen was on the Larry King Show not too long ago and that he failed to give a clear and explicit answer to questions about the gospel and the narrowness of Christ's command to trust him alone for salvation. If this is so, and I think it is, then shame on Joel Osteen. He blew it. But what I rarely hear these same critics say is that Osteen later apologized for failing to give such a clear answer. I hear almost none of these critics ever apologize in like manner. In this case I have to say that I'll take Osteen's failure, and subsequent humble apologies, over their attacks. My guess is that God is using Osteen more than the critics.
have watched these "watchdogs" and "watchdog groups" come and go for fifty years. When I have been dead for two minutes my efforts to expose such groups will mean nothing. What I did to honor Christ, to faithfuly point people to his person and to believe his gospel, will remain. I simply have no interest in being a member of a self-appointed "watchdog" team. I am genuinely sorry that I ever bought into this approach. I see nothing in it that corresponds to what Scripture actually requires of me as a minister when it comes to the Pauline exhortations to expose error and warn people about heresy. In the case of these texts context really is everything.
3)words of JO...
"I feel like that gives a bad rap because I don’t in the least bit consider myself a prosperity-type preacher. I don’t think I’ve ever preached a message on finances.
It’s just more an attitude of God wants to bless us where we are. When I say 'bless,' I don’t mean go drive 10 Mercedes and stuff like that. I’m talking about being happy and having good marriages and good relationships. I think sometimes I get grouped in with a prosperity-type... like that’s all I focus on, but I don’t mean it to come off like that. "
- Big B |
|
| Big B, that was an interesting article you referenced from John Armstrong. You are right that he defends Osteen to a large extent but even he (Armstrong) expresses strong reservations about Osteen’s message. Some snippets about Osteen from Armstrong include, “Osteen represents some of the best and worst of popular religion in America . . . I have my own particular concerns regarding missing biblical elements in Joel Osteen’s message . . . Osteen can be faulted for sure. For one, his emphasis appears unbalanced.” Missing biblical elements? Unbalanced emphasis? Sounds pretty much like what some of us here on this blog have been saying, doesn’t it? Then, Armstrong quotes Michael Horton, an acknowledged Osteen critic. “Joel Osteen uses the Bible each week like it's a collection of fortune cookies that can be opened to suit any of your needs or goals in life. The Bible is a story about the redemption of Christ, not a timeless set of principles for success." To this quote, Armstrong adds, “Sadly, I fear there is a ring of truth in Horton’s words.” I couldn’t have said it any better myself. - Steamboat Willie |
|
| see Acts for how handkerchiefs and Paul were used - cdl |
|
| Paul was an apostle...but thats another topic I think. - Dorcy |
|
| ...and he didn't sell handkerchiefs. Not sure what connection to scripture miracle spring water might have. It would be easier to make a case for annointed oil (less profit though, I guess). - cdl |
|
| non biblical doctrines such as infant baptism open the door to other non biblical doctrines such as this one because an environment where the flock needs to have things explained to them because they can't understand what the word says on their own (supposedly) then they'll buy into this one and the next one... - cdl |
|
| I actually agree with you, CDL, that liberal theology can lead an individual or a denomination down a slippery slope. I just disagree with you that infant baptism is one such example. - Matthew Cochrane |
|
| liberal is as liberal does - cdl |
|
Big B, I have to side with Steamboat Willie and Mean Gene on this one. I have no problem with a preacher who lacks a formal seminary education (Bob Coy of Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale and Jim Cymbala of Brooklyn Tabernacle are just two examples off the top of my head who have no such education but have led excellent ministries). Also, while Dr. D. James Kennedy has been a faithful minister for years, his sermons are not perfect either. Regardless, his theology is not the subject of this post. I was just interested in showing examples of "prosperity gospel" preachers, of which Joel Osteen is a prime example. Business Week ran an article entitled "Meet the Prosperity Preacher" all about Osteen. Its really not something he denies. The focus of his ministry has always been this. - Matthew Cochrane
Matthew you sound like you are drinking the Kool Aid
Just google Pastor Cymbala Abuse and go to the topix blog and see the 2000 comments about the abuses of Jim Cymbala, the accusations of mishandling millions of dollars, the lies and embelishments of his books. Maybe Seminary Training would have helped him a bit? - Freddy |
|
|
|
|
| |
©2009 Matthew Cochrane
| |
|
Recent Activity:
Top 5 Posts of the Month:
Recently Viewed Posts:
Top Ten Most Commented
A Biblical Defense of Paedobaptism, Part 8: Commonly Held Objections and Their Fallacies (378)
Roe v. Wade: The 35th Anniversary of Legalized Abortion (147)
In Defense of My Church and Pastor: A Followup (108)
In Defense of My Church and Pastor: On the Recent Controversy Surrounding Tullian Tchividjian and Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church (106)
A Biblical Defense of Paedobaptism, Part 3: The Proper Mode of Baptism (79)
Friday Political Roundup VI: Thoughts on New Hampshire's Primary (Special Wednesday Edition) (78)
Why I Like Mike, Part 2: Responding to the Conservative Establishment's Attacks (75)
In Defense of My Church and Pastor: Congregational Meeting Announcement (69)
From the Depths of the Web 2, June 2008 (65)
Can the Church Compromise on Baptism? Part 1 (60)
Top Ten Hits All-Time
- Abortion, America's Greatest Sin, Part 4: Defining Personhood
- Supreme Court Upholds Partial Birth Abortion Ban
- A Biblical Defense of Paedobaptism, Part 7: The Sign of the Covenant
- A Biblical Defense of Paedobaptism, Part 8: Commonly Held Objections and Their Fallacies
- Mentorship Program for Incarcerated Young Men Gives Christians Opportunity to Witness, Offer Guidance
- Abortion, America's Greatest Sin, Part 3: The Beginning of Life
- Book Review: Love and Respect
- Book Review: Velvet Elvis
- The True Meaning of Christmas: Wrath, Judgment, Hope, and Grace
- In Defense of My Church and Pastor: On the Recent Controversy Surrounding Tullian Tchividjian and Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church
Add your Feeds:
Blogs I read:
Fave Five
Religious and Cultural
Friends and Family
See what my readers are saying…
“this website should be named NotConsistentThought or NotCompleteThought”
“I would say you are too sensitive”
“you just twist and spin”
“you just bloviate and pontificate”
“you are legalistic”
|
|