August 17, 2006, Matthew Cochrane, Abortion, America's Greatest Sin, Part 4: Defining Personhood

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Declaration of Independence

 

Only God knows how deeply and mysteriously the creation of personhood is woven into the making of the body…The destruction of conceived human life – whether embryonic, fetal, or viable – is an assault on the unique person-forming work of God.

Dr. John Piper

 

The evidence that human life begins at conception, not at birth is so overwhelming that even the “pro-choice” camp has had to largely accept this medical fact.  To be sure, there are still abortion advocates who try to argue that human life does not begin until birth but the number is dwindling - largely because the medical data now available simply does not support this reckless claim.  Instead defenders of this heinous “medical” practice have now abandoned a scientific defense and have turned to philosophy to support its continuation.  Ever so deftly, abortion supporters have shifted the debate from when human life biologically begins to what the definition of a person is.  

 

Dr. Bernard Nathanson, the co-founder of NARAL (National Abortion Rights Action League) and abortion rights pioneer turned pro-life activist, addresses the reason why pro-choice advocates had to change the focus of the controversy.  In his book, The Hand of God, he writes:

 

The crux of the issue as defined by most pro-abortion theorists is whether the embryo, or later the fetus, is to be considered a ‘person’.  It is crucial for them to move the debate onto that ground because there is simply no doubt that even the early embryo is a human being.  All its genetic coding and all its features are indisputably human. As to being there is no doubt that it exists, is alive, is self-directed, and is not the same being as its mother – and is therefore a unified whole…So personhood must be made critical if abortion is to be moral.

 

Abortion supporters know that if they are successful in endowing “personhood” on a more exclusive group than just all human biological life, they will have succeeded in making abortion a moral and just practice in the public eye.

 

Philosophy is stumped by the question of what defines a personOf course, philosophy itself cannot agree on a definition of what constitutes “personhood”.  Several philosophers have weighed in on the matter with the abortion issue in mind.  Bonnie Steinbock, author of Life Before Birth: The Moral and Legal Status of Embryos and Fetuses, subscribes to the “interest” view.  This is the belief that the possession of interests is necessary for attaining a moral status.  Basically, beings have rights who have moral status.  Michael Tooley, a professor of philosophy at the University of Colorado, believes there are no less than fourteen different attributes a being must possess before being crowned with “personhood”. Among these characteristics are the ability to problem solve, the ability to interact with others, and the property of being a continuing conscious self.   This is a rather stringent test for “personhood” - I certainly hope I’m not tested early in the morning!  Needless to say, there is no way my month-old infant son could pass this test either.  I wonder if Professor Tooley would support infanticide too.

 

 I do not pretend for a second to possess the philosophical credentials necessary to debate these ideas.  I do, however, know a little something about history and it is interesting to note that this is not the first time a society has tried to exclude certain human life from a more exclusive definition of “personhood”.  Let’s see where this set of ideas has led other societies in the past and decide for ourselves whether we want to follow that same slippery path.

 

Unfortunately, we don’t have to look far as our own country’s past can attest. In 1857, just three years before the Civil War, the Supreme Court ruled in the infamous Dred Scott case that:

 

... a negro, whose ancestors were imported into this country, and sold as slaves...were not intended to be included under the word 'citizens' in the Constitution, and can, therefore, claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to citizens of the United States.

 

The Supreme Court's decision to legalize abortion eerily echoed the sentiments expressed by the Court over a hundred years earlier in the Dred Scott decision.Here the Supreme Court ruled that people of another race did not qualify as “citizens” and therefore were not entitled to the rights others were granted.  Slavery was a despicable practice which was constantly defended with the argument that black people were not fully people.  The language used in Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that made abortion legal, sounds eerily similar:

 

The word 'person,' as used in the Fourteenth Amendment, does not include the unborn.... [T]he unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons in the whole sense.

 

Here we see that more than a hundred years after Dred Scott, the same argument was used to strip another class of people, the unborn, of their inalienable rights.  In the first case, the law allowed certain people (“negroes”) to be enslaved and, here, in the second case, the law allows for another group (the unborn) to be killed outright.  This is a logical progression of events once the definition of “person” becomes arbitrary or capricious.

 

Of course, there is an even more chilling example of where this ideology of a more exclusive “personhood” was put into practice.  The Holocaust is a well-established fact.  Unless you’re an Iranian dictator or member of a racial supremacy group, you probably understand that during World War II Hitler ordered the mass executions of over twelve million minorities, six million of which were Jews.  What is not as well-known is that Nazi Germany used this same reasoning to murder hundreds of thousands of medical patients before it ever turned its attention to the Jews and other ethnic groups.

 

Hugh Gallagher, a paraplegic and author of By Trust Betrayed, writes that between two and three hundred thousand disabled German citizens were granted “final medical assistance” because their use to society had run out.  The physician-initiated program started off slowly but picked up steam as it progressed. Gallagher states, “When they started the program, they killed patients on a one-by-one basis, and then it began to accelerate, until at the end, they were clearing out whole wards of hospitals.”  Gallagher goes on to state that it was with this program started by the medical community (not by Hitler) that the German government perfected the killing techniques they would later use on the Jews (i.e. gas chambers, etc.).

 

Dr. D. James Kennedy in his book, Lord of All, emphasizes that this practice “did not actually begin with the Nazis.  It was discussed by doctors and philosophers all over the Western world the previous half century.” It was just that the Nazi government was the first to incorporate these ideas into practice. C. Everett Koop, the former U.S Surgeon General wrote in Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation, “…when the first 273,000 German aged, infirm, and retarded were killed in gas chambers, there was no outcry from that medical profession either, and it was not far from there to Auschwitz.”  Another logical progression, if you will.

 

After these barbaric Hegelian medical practices were in place (it is also interesting to note that abortion was legal in Germany during this time), the horrible truth did not register with the German people when Hitler declared the Jews were not a human race in 1923 and when Germany’s highest court failed to recognize Jews in the full legal sense as a person in 1936. After all, the “undesirable” in that country were already being treated as less than human.  Once that happens, it’s merely a majority decision to determine whom the desirable and undesirable persons are, with the undesirable members then being casually discarded when they become a nuisance to the desirable.

 

See, I believe all men are equal because the Scriptures state we are all created in the image of God (Gen. 1:27).  This is a theme that runs through the course of the Bible.  In Job 31: 13-15, Job is arguing that he has always treated his servants properly as other individuals even though it was common for bondmen and bondwomen in those days to be treated as property without rights.  How does he support his treatment of them as fully people? The passage states:

 

If I have despised the cause of my male or female servant When they complained against me, What then shall I do when God rises up?  When he punishes, how shall I answer Him?  Did not He who made me in the womb make them?  Did not the same one fashion us in the womb?

 

He justifies his treatment of his servants by saying they were both created by the same God!  Dr. John Piper, senior minister of Bethlehem Baptist Church and former Professor of Biblical Studies at Bethel College, writes on this text in his book, Brothers, We Are Not Professionals:

 

So both Psalm 139 and Job 31 emphasize God as the primary workman – nurturer, fashioner, knitter, Creator – in this time of gestation.  Why is that important?  It’s important because God is the only one who can create personhood. Mothers and fathers can contribute some impersonal egg and some impersonal sperm, but only God creates independent personhood.  So when the Scripture emphasizes that God is the main nurturer and shaper in the womb, it is stressing that that what is happening in the womb is the unique work of God, namely, the making of a person.  From the Biblical point of view gestation is the unique work of God fashioning personhood.

 

Galatians 3:26-29, further emphasizes that all who place their faith in Jesus Christ are accepted equally before the throne of God.  The verses state:

 

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ  have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

I hope the lesson from history is clear. The world’s vision of life leads to an exclusive definition of personhood.  Inevitably, every time a society has assumed the power to judge which life is worthy of living and which life is not, great evil has been the result and life and liberty have always been the first casualties.  The Biblical view of life is that it’s a precious gift from God and it is not for mankind to deem any life unworthy – whether it is the lame, sick, elderly, a minority race, or the unborn. That life is an unalienable right for us all. Which view do you subscribe to?

Comments
Webster's Dictionary lists a person as "being an individual or existing as an indivisible whole; existing as a distinct entity." You claim that each new fertilized zygote is already a new person because its DNA is uniquely different than anyone else's. In other words, if you're human, you must be a person. Of course we've already seen that a simple hair follicle is just as human as a single-cell zygote, and, that unique DNA doesn't make the difference since two twins are not one person. It's quite obvious, then, that something else must occur to make one human being different from another. There must be something else that happens to change a DNA-patterned body into a distinct person. (Or in the case of twins, two identically DNA-patterned bodies into two distinct persons.) There is, and most people inherently know it, but they have trouble verbalizing it for one very specific reason. The defining mark between something that is human and someone who is a person is 'consciousness.' It is the self-aware quality of consciousness that makes us uniquely different from others. This self-awareness, this sentient consciousness is also what separates us from every other animal life form on the planet. We think about ourselves. We use language to describe ourselves. We are aware of ourselves as a part of the greater whole. You can quote the Bible as much as you want but that doesn't change what a person is! - Jessica

Jessica, that tired old argument about this being an argument between the Bible on the one hand and science on the other hand just won’t cut it any more in today’s world. It might have worked years ago but no longer. If you don’t want to believe the Bible on this, or any other issue, that’s fine; it your right to do so. However, in another installment in this series, it was pointed that now doctors and scientists have come around to state empirically that life begins at conception. That’s not the Bible saying it; it is today’s doctors and scientists who have studied and specialized their education to know about this subject. Dr. Nathanson clearly sated, “I’d have to assert that human life begins even earlier, with the complex process of fertilization – a miracle in chemistry, physics, and molecular biology occurring within the fallopian tube.” Dr. C. Ward Kischer, Professor Emeritus of Cell Biology and Anatomy, with a specialty in Human Embryology, adds, “…from the moment when the sperm makes contact with the oocyte, under conditions we have come to understand and describe as normal, all subsequent development to birth of a living newborn is a fait accompli. That is to say, after that initial contact of spermatozoon and oocyte there is no subsequent moment or stage, which is held in arbitration or abeyance by the mother, or the embryo or fetus. Nor is a second contribution, a signal or trigger, needed from the male in order to continue and complete development to birth. Human development is a continuum in which so - called stages overlap and blend one into another. Indeed, all of life is contained within a time continuum. Thus, the beginning of a new life is exacted by the beginning of fertilization, the reproductive event which is the essence of life.” Jessica, this leaves you in a fairly vulnerable position. You won’t believe the Bible (and that’s alright) and you won’t believe the scientists and doctors who specialize in this field (and that’s alright, too) so that sort of puts you in a position of willful ignorance. Doesn’t it? I mean, please! You have just tried to do what the rest of the pro-abortionist camp has been doing recently. You purposefully ignore the doctors and scientists (because they now disagree with your side) and then smoothly segue into a comparison of a hair follicle to a human embryo. There is no moral relevance there but you have tried to make one. I confess I have never seen what happens when a hair follicle is fed and nurtured but I have personally witnessed what happens when an embryo is fed and nurtured. Care to make a comparison? - Jameson

Jameson, be not too hard on Jessica, for she proves the point the author was making when he said, “defenders of this heinous “medical” practice have now abandoned a scientific defense and have turned to philosophy to support its continuation. Ever so deftly, abortion supporters have shifted the debate from when human life biologically begins to what the definition of a person is.” First off, even though Webster was a Lutheran, he was an extremely intelligent and spiritual man. Perhaps taking a second look at Webster’s Dictionary might be useful to us. I ordered the original 1806 version from Amazon today, but wasn’t able to find a free version of it online. So the next best thing I found was the 1828 version which states: "PERSON, n. per'sn. [L. persona; said to be compounded of per, through or by, and sonus, sound; a Latin word signifying primarily a mask used by actors on the stage.] 1. An individual human being consisting of body and soul." Something tells me Mr. Noah Webster wouldn't have cared for abortion so much. - Stephen the Herculean Berean

"The word person is derived from the Latin persona. It is a combination of the prefix per- (“through”) and the root sono. In the Roman theater a persona was a mask through which actors spoke. We have all seen the mask symbols that are the trademark of the theater world. There is the happy-faced mask that symbolizes comedy and the sad-faced mask that symbolizes tragedy. There was a great struggle over the use of the word persona in theology because of its origin in the language of the theater.” - Dr. R. C. Sproul

"But because the father, though distinguished by his own peculiar properties, has expressed himself wholly in the Son, he is said with perfect reason to have rendered his person manifest in him." - John Calvin (commenting on Hebrews 1:1-3)

Some of Jessica's comments are reminding me of Obama's speech. Excellent quotes from Piper. I was wondering if you are going to devote a part dealing with the practicality of voicing one's anti-abortion views & also documenting what has happened in the Anti-Abortion movement since Roe V. Wade. - Dylan

i think this is very sad with abortion i thiink if you were woman enough to open your legs then you should be woman enough to have it. abortion is not right - akila

If we were to place an aborted child into the hands of their 'Mother' we would be considered cruel, cruel as that act would be it would at least be honest.

Pro abortionists are only interested in 'Womens rights' it is the ulmimate expession of the self centered me first society where hedonism is not only accepted but lauded as an inaliable right.

 

THERE WILL BE A PRICE TO PAY.GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED.

- Mark

"Pro abortionists are only interested in 'Womens rights' it is the ulmimate expession of the self centered me first society where hedonism is not only accepted but lauded as an inaliable right."

That's a great point Mark.  Sadly, selfish interests have trumped everything, even human life, in post-Roe v. Wade America. 

- Matthew Cochrane

 

Although I do believe prevention of unwanted pregnancies is the most important measure, and no one should ever take their option to have an abortion for granted, there are many situations when it is needed. There is nothing selfish about having abortion. 
1) It is more harmful for the child to live a horrible and unwanted life than to never be born. Crime rates soar (That includes deaths of many already living humans!) when children are not raised properly, a result of many unwanted pregnancies.  
2) Anti-abortionists are SELFISH to not consider RAPE victims who are impregnated. They had no choice to conceive the child and its birth may cause many problems: Psychological discomfort of the mother – seeing their attacker in the face of their baby, and not being prepared for a child. Both of these problems can result in the abuse of the baby.
Our world is already over populated and our impact on the Earth is hindering our ability to live here much longer, why bring new humans to the planet that will have unfortunate disadvantages and a life of poverty, abuse, and terror.
- Cassie

most abortions are from unwanted pregnancy. rape victims only make up a small percentage. i can understand a rape victim or incest victim getting one but i cant see why the others have one . there are ways to stopfrom getting  pregnant such as birth control, condomns etc. if you do decide to engage in sexual activity without protection  then you wanted to get pregnant. the fetus may not be human but it is a living thing so its considered murder.  

- Emily

 

This post is well written and informative and faithful in representing both sides of the debate. In my opinion, the pro life camp is mistaken in trying to take the Constitution, an agnostic document designed primarily to limit governmental meddling in private lives, and go beyond its basic morals which are primarily based on the tenets of western civilization but may also be found in the Bible. This agreement with some of Bible does not mean, however, that the framers intended to make the Bible as a whole an authoritative source for governmental processes or legal issues. The Constitution ends by pointing out that there will be no religious test for public office (elected or appointed) or for those in the public trust (such as public school officials and students). And, Amendment I makes it clear that Congress will not establish or prohibit religion. That stipulation leaves it to the courts. One may argue that the states might establish a religion if desired and did at one time. That concept was not tested in the Supreme Court when the Union was young and Virginia’s disestablishmentarians, for example, defeated the antidisestablishmentarians in the legislature and disestablished the Anglican Church as the church of Virginia. It is vigorously and frequently tested in the courts today. Amendment XIV is used to hold the states accountable as this blog shows.
Dred Scott is an example of moralists trying to apply ex-constitutional morals to the document.
It takes five non-indentured slaves to count the same as three citizens in apportionment and taxation determinations (Article. I. Section. 2. Third Clause), and Article.IV.Section.2.Third Clause indicates that a slave is a person (“No person held in Service…”) but if escaping or travelling (Dred Scott) through otherwise free states is in essence property and is stealing himself if he doesn’t return his (and his master’s) person to its rightful owner. The Supreme Court had to revert back to the Declaration to clarify this contradiction that a slave could be both a person and property. One of the complaints against King George in Jefferson’s first draft of the Declaration was that the “Christian king of Great Britain” more like “infidel powers” forced the slave trade on the colonies.  This clause was deleted because of the consequences to slavery and the inherent contradiction with the truths contained in the lofty opening of the same Declaration. The Supreme Court, the only body empowered by the Constitution to interpret the Constitution, ruled in Dred Scott in line with what the document says. It did not rule based on what Dred Scott’s lawyers and supporters claimed was immoral. The country was divided on slavery so an amendment could not be proposed and would not have been ratified. Today, the country is divided on abortion which was legal in numerous states before Roe v. Wade and an amendment’s chances are similarly bleak.
Roe says fetus has never been afforded legal status. I believe a legal mind such as the writer for the majority did not include this historical assessment flippantly. In fact seven of nine justices agreed with that point, and six of the seven were Republican appointees, by the way.
The Bible itself is unclear regarding the legal status of a fetus in fact indicating that, like a slave, it is as much property as it is a developing human person.
Exodus 21:
There are two ways to translate verse xx. The woman struck by accident either delivers a healthy baby or miscarries (see NIV and note x) resulting in the death of the infant. I’m not sure a severe fine would be warranted if the baby was healthy in fact the mother might be thankful the successful pregnancy accidentally or providentially ended early. It is also interesting that the husband has to initiate the suit (due process) which recognizes his property rights and equally protects his financial interests as well as the mother’s. A severe fine compensates the parents for either the emotional loss or the potential financial gain a child might provide.   Verse xx then, when discussing compensating for loss of life down to pain and damaged caused by bruising, mentions “burn for burn” (keviyah: burning, branding, branding scar, burn). Could this section refer to a burned, but surviving fetus? Unlikely. To be burned in utero, the womb would be destroyed and the mother would be severely burned. Could a fetus survive a destroyed uterus? Would such an unlikely possibility be used in defining the law? The main point of this passage which is “You will be held accountable if you get so enraged that you put others in harm’s way.” The implication of that main point, btw, implies the unstated, “You will be held accountable even if all you did was harm a fetus.” These verses, by the way, lie between verses which are discussing “the slave which is his property” and compensation for causing permanent disability to a slave.” Implication? Fetus is property. Variance from constitutional law? Exodus recognizes the husband’s rights, too. Unwed father’s rights? Unclear. In my opinion, the unwed father has equal protection under Amendment XIV though due process doesn’t currently consider it. The DNA of the fetus is derived from both the father and the mother and the privacy of the mother inferred in Roe v. Wade by “due process” is a debatable point. Furthermore, since Jesus quoted this passage in Matthew, how can we ignore Him in interpreting Exodus? He fulfilled the law. But, He ignores the fetus. He just says “If you are slapped, allow yourself to be slapped again.” The pregnant woman, or unfertilized woman or infertile man when accidentally or intentionally slapped might best respond with, “Thank you, sir. May I have another?”
I Kings 3
The wonderful story of Solomon’s God-like wisdom is very interesting. In the due process and appeals process of the Jewish nation at its zenith, he condemns an infant to death. That’s worse than or equivalent to killing a fetus. Why? Because he is showing that it is better for the child of a single, promiscuous mother (a prostitute) without husband’s representation. It is better for the child to die than to be raised by a selfish mother. The mother proves her love by giving up her claim to the child for the sake of the child and Solomon suspends the death warrant. The people were awed by Solomon’s wisdom because they saw that it was from God.
Numerous biblical statements such as, “You [God] formed me in the womb.”
Were miscarried babies not formed by God in the womb as well? How does this show that a fetus has legal status as a person? A fetus is unable to make a claim until its birthed and then its claim is moot. Importantly, the Bible does not tell us when we gain a soul and what happens to a dead fetus or dead infant in terms of eternal security. Solomon doesn’t seem to be concerned in that regard. There are mass infanticides in the Bible. The implications are not discussed, but the infancies of Moses and Jesus are part of the story of redemption. An individual infant dies in the case of David’s son. Why did it not die prematurely? Apparently, God’s point could not be made clearly in that case.
Personally, I think Amendment XIV is clear in showing that a fetus is not a citizen because citizens are born in the U.S. or to U.S. citizens. But a fetus, since it is a “developing person” (dictionary), meets the amendment’s minimal requirement. It says “Any” person may not be deprived of life without due process.   The court doesn’t think it’s unfair to delegate due process to the mother. It is unfair to not consider at least the property rights of the father in due process and since a developing person is any person it is unfair to the fetus as well.
But, my personal opinion that abortion is horrible is not taken into consideration by the Supreme Court if it’s based on my religious views. The constitution, an agnostic document, is the basis. The founding fathers were predominantly churched and often, like Geo. Washington and Patrick Henry and Richard Henry Lee (a signer), were quite devout, but the morals of the document they created, like its intentions for governmental power are limited. This agnostic moral protects our religious freedom as well as that of others and makes it a great document to read and follow. If our morals were pervasive, the requisite amendment would be easy. But, our morals are constantly subject to testing within the marketplace of ideas where faith is not the determining argument. Reason is. Would Jesus have involved himself in the acrimony of abortion politics? Hard to say. He didn’t come to establish His earthly rule beyond the rule of our hearts. He loves the aborters and the abortionists since “God so loved the world.” The truth will set you free, but we need to go beyond asserting and prove that the truth is true indeed. Granting equal protection to the father resulting in pregnancy becoming part of the public record is an incremental improvement worth pursuing, but has an impact on privacy rights. Granting full personhood to the fetus impacts the property rights of the parents. The state’s interest must be clearly shown, defined and limited in either case. The poor performance by children of single parents will need to be addressed if the pro-life group intends to show illegal abortion is in the state’s interest. Solomon needed proof as well.
This post is well written and informative and faithful in representing both sides of the debate. In my opinion, the pro life camp is mistaken in trying to take the Constitution, an agnostic document designed primarily to limit governmental meddling in private lives, and go beyond its basic morals which are primarily based on the tenets of western civilization but may also be found in the Bible. This agreement with some of Bible does not mean, however, that the framers intended to make the Bible as a whole an authoritative source for governmental processes or legal issues. The Constitution ends by pointing out that there will be no religious test for public office (elected or appointed) or for those in the public trust (such as public school officials and students). And, Amendment I makes it clear that Congress will not establish or prohibit religion. That stipulation leaves it to the courts. One may argue that the states might establish a religion if desired and did at one time. That concept was not tested in the Supreme Court when the Union was young and Virginia’s disestablishmentarians, for example, defeated the antidisestablishmentarians in the legislature and disestablished the Anglican Church as the church of Virginia. It is vigorously and frequently tested in the courts today. Amendment XIV is used to hold the states accountable as this blog shows.
Dred Scott is an example of moralists trying to apply ex-constitutional morals to the document.
It takes five non-indentured slaves to count the same as three citizens in apportionment and taxation determinations (Article. I. Section. 2. Third Clause), and Article.IV.Section.2.Third Clause indicates that a slave is a person (“No person held in Service…”) but if escaping or travelling (Dred Scott) through otherwise free states is in essence property and is stealing himself if he doesn’t return his (and his master’s) person to its rightful owner. The Supreme Court had to revert back to the Declaration to clarify this contradiction that a slave could be both a person and property. One of the complaints against King George in Jefferson’s first draft of the Declaration was that the “Christian king of Great Britain” more like “infidel powers” forced the slave trade on the colonies.  This clause was deleted because of the consequences to slavery and the inherent contradiction with the truths contained in the lofty opening of the same Declaration. The Supreme Court, the only body empowered by the Constitution to interpret the Constitution, ruled in Dred Scott in line with what the document says. It did not rule based on what Dred Scott’s lawyers and supporters claimed was immoral. The country was divided on slavery so an amendment could not be proposed and would not have been ratified. Today, the country is divided on abortion which was legal in numerous states before Roe v. Wade and an amendment’s chances are similarly bleak.
Roe says fetus has never been afforded legal status. I believe a legal mind such as the writer for the majority did not include this historical assessment flippantly. In fact seven of nine justices agreed with that point, and six of the seven were Republican appointees, by the way.
The Bible itself is unclear regarding the legal status of a fetus in fact indicating that, like a slave, it is as much property as it is a developing human person.
Exodus 21:
There are two ways to translate verse xx. The woman struck by accident either delivers a healthy baby or miscarries (see NIV and note x) resulting in the death of the infant. I’m not sure a severe fine would be warranted if the baby was healthy in fact the mother might be thankful the successful pregnancy accidentally or providentially ended early. It is also interesting that the husband has to initiate the suit (due process) which recognizes his property rights and equally protects his financial interests as well as the mother’s. A severe fine compensates the parents for either the emotional loss or the potential financial gain a child might provide.   Verse xx then, when discussing compensating for loss of life down to pain and damaged caused by bruising, mentions “burn for burn” (keviyah: burning, branding, branding scar, burn). Could this section refer to a burned, but surviving fetus? Unlikely. To be burned in utero, the womb would be destroyed and the mother would be severely burned. Could a fetus survive a destroyed uterus? Would such an unlikely possibility be used in defining the law? The main point of this passage which is “You will be held accountable if you get so enraged that you put others in harm’s way.” The implication of that main point, btw, implies the unstated, “You will be held accountable even if all you did was harm a fetus.” These verses, by the way, lie between verses which are discussing “the slave which is his property” and compensation for causing permanent disability to a slave.” Implication? Fetus is property. Variance from constitutional law? Exodus recognizes the husband’s rights, too. Unwed father’s rights? Unclear. In my opinion, the unwed father has equal protection under Amendment XIV though due process doesn’t currently consider it. The DNA of the fetus is derived from both the father and the mother and the privacy of the mother inferred in Roe v. Wade by “due process” is a debatable point. Furthermore, since Jesus quoted this passage in Matthew, how can we ignore Him in interpreting Exodus? He fulfilled the law. But, He ignores the fetus. He just says “If you are slapped, allow yourself to be slapped again.” The pregnant woman, or unfertilized woman or infertile man when accidentally or intentionally slapped might best respond with, “Thank you, sir. May I have another?”
I Kings 3
The wonderful story of Solomon’s God-like wisdom is very interesting. In the due process and appeals process of the Jewish nation at its zenith, he condemns an infant to death. That’s worse than or equivalent to killing a fetus. Why? Because he is showing that it is better for the child of a single, promiscuous mother (a prostitute) without husband’s representation. It is better for the child to die than to be raised by a selfish mother. The mother proves her love by giving up her claim to the child for the sake of the child and Solomon suspends the death warrant. The people were awed by Solomon’s wisdom because they saw that it was from God.
Numerous biblical statements such as, “You [God] formed me in the womb.”
Were miscarried babies not formed by God in the womb as well? How does this show that a fetus has legal status as a person? A fetus is unable to make a claim until its birthed and then its claim is moot. Importantly, the Bible does not tell us when we gain a soul and what happens to a dead fetus or dead infant in terms of eternal security. Solomon doesn’t seem to be concerned in that regard. There are mass infanticides in the Bible. The implications are not discussed, but the infancies of Moses and Jesus are part of the story of redemption. An individual infant dies in the case of David’s son. Why did it not die prematurely? Apparently, God’s point could not be made clearly in that case.
Personally, I think Amendment XIV is clear in showing that a fetus is not a citizen because citizens are born in the U.S. or to U.S. citizens. But a fetus, since it is a “developing person” (dictionary), meets the amendment’s minimal requirement. It says “Any” person may not be deprived of life without due process.   The court doesn’t think it’s unfair to delegate due process to the mother. It is unfair to not consider at least the property rights of the father in due process and since a developing person is any person it is unfair to the fetus as well.
But, my personal opinion that abortion is horrible is not taken into consideration by the Supreme Court if it’s based on my religious views. The constitution, an agnostic document, is the basis. The founding fathers were predominantly churched and often, like Geo. Washington and Patrick Henry and Richard Henry Lee (a signer), were quite devout, but the morals of the document they created, like its intentions for governmental power are limited. This agnostic moral protects our religious freedom as well as that of others and makes it a great document to read and follow. If our morals were pervasive, the requisite amendment would be easy. But, our morals are constantly subject to testing within the marketplace of ideas where faith is not the determining argument. Reason is. Would Jesus have involved himself in the acrimony of abortion politics? Hard to say. He didn’t come to establish His earthly rule beyond the rule of our hearts. He loves the aborters and the abortionists since “God so loved the world.” The truth will set you free, but we need to go beyond asserting and prove that the truth is true indeed. Granting equal protection to the father resulting in pregnancy becoming part of the public record is an incremental improvement worth pursuing, but has an impact on privacy rights. Granting full personhood to the fetus impacts the property rights of the parents. The state’s interest must be clearly shown, defined and limited in either case. The poor performance by children of single parents will need to be addressed if the pro-life group intends to show illegal abortion is in the state’s interest. Solomon needed proof as well.  And, of course, abortion is a personal sin, not the sin of a nation state.
- c

joe 4 cod 5

- joe

james sucks eggs

- joe milne

fsdgvsdfgsdfgdfgdsfggdrzstyilui  cxv yu8fkmghvdvgd

- afdjsakd f

"I was born here, an' I was raished here, an' dad gum it, I am gonna die here, an no sidewindin...bushwackin...hornswaglin...cracker-croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter."  Gabby Johnson

- c

Emily: 95% of sexual assaults are not reported. Do the math and figure out the correlation to the number of unwanted pregnancies

 

Mark: women's right movement is just for selfish causes? So I guess women ONLY serve to make babies and comply to their man because God says so, RIGHT? Sir, you are an idiot and God hates your boner. Good day.

- Derek

Derek, I don't know enough info to do the math, but I am interested in the answer.  The equation would be something like this:

.95xy = total predicted sexual assault conceptions

x = sexual assaults; y = probability of pregancy per vaginal ejaculation

Thesis: total predicted rape related conceptions if actually concieved would be a signicant portion of total actual unwanted pregancies

- c

Time to delete some comments.

- TLM

Too soon?

- TLM

TLM, you are so off thread even for a reptile.

I think liltreewhisperer had you in mind:

It's deleting time again....

I recently went through my friends list and noticed that I had a few friends that I had absolutely nothing in common with and/or have never chatted with... or I have tried and have gotten no reply! So I will be cleaning up my page a bit and deleting a few people..No hard feelings... If you wish to remain.. please let me know and I will not delete or I will re-add you. To the rest of you... show some love and know that if you are in my life, you are in it for a reason... Thank you for being here

By the way, if you don't have a full profile with a pic of yourself (except for my Beloved Mr. Fizixx and my nephew) , please don't invite me as a friend. I am not interested in sneaky dishonest people. - LilTreeWhisperer

http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/IHW53FXZAW4Q46MCLPRHDQ4PHQ?eid=qeSk0SA7nX75iD2rXa6BYzv9wipUtL5gJE94b3RLHfcWw5qGIg

prank that and CAPTCHA this

- c

Since Gen 1:28 was previously misused and abused elsewhere on this site to erroneously justify the "cultural mandate," and since this thread is topping the most recent activity list, here are some abortion thoughts starting with Gen 1:28. 

God created man in His own image and blesses them and then commands him to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth and rule over the animal kingdom and then He provides him with a vegan diet.  Why do we eat meat?  Because later, after the fall and in the law of Moses He provides dietary laws that include meat.  And, in the NT, He clarifies that even Mosaic dietary restrictions are canceled.

In the case of reproduction, Moses, later editorializing on the Adamic period, adds to the account of Eve's creation, "for this reason a man shall leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife."  This commentary and the Mosaic law prescribe the family and marriage.  Family's raise children until they leave to start their own families.  Child bearing and rearing is an intentional activity.  Single people should be chaste until marriage and wait until the circumstances are suitable to provide for a family.  A marriage license and church ceremony aren't the precise requirement as much as a committed couple being a family in fact is.

Ex 20 through 22 imply that the wife is the husband's property and so is the homunculus or fetus whichever you prefer.  Ps 139 indicates that it is really after birth when a person is recognized as a person.  I admit Ps 139 takes a lot of study to gain this insight because this Psalm is really about obediently submitting one's own life to God for examination for the sake of conscience and obedience.  It's not about what someone else is doing with his life.  In fact, if read incorrectly, one might justify killing evil doers who distract you from worshipping God.

2 Kings tells the story of Solomon who was prepared to split a baby in two because it didn't have a loving mother to provide and care for him.  Jesus suffers the little children to come unto Him.  He touches them and warns people not to harm these little ones.  But, he never talks of a child bearing woman.  He could have easily done that you know.

If Christians are going to condemn gay marriage because it violates the sanctity of marriage then they should condemn bringing unwanted pregancies to term because that violates the sanctity of child rearing.  There is no Biblical passage that indicates that should be the case, but there are plenty that indicate that we should worry about our own walk rather than judging the behavior of others especially non believers.

 

- c

The funny thing is that the assertion that we should feel guilty about the pro abortion laws of America is more in line with the doctrine of Arminius than Calvin's.

- c

since burning woman's blog looks dead, I'll repost here irt her 2008 Christmas post:

For some reason, it still seems important to me that in the case of John and Jesus, we know that they were born. If someone like Mary had facilitated a miscarriage through the various means at her disposal in that time and place, it still isn't clear that it would have been wrong. Ps 139 (KJV) says the same of David, "For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother's womb," and he ultimately was born as well. All three of these people are significant because they were protected from miscarriage until birth. A miscarriage whether facilitated or not has not been protected until birth. The passage <burning woman>...quoted implies loving grandparent(s), but Solomon would have put a baby to death because it did not have a loving mother.

- c


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